I think the importance of the Battle of the Atlantic cannot be understated. This was a battle that started on the first day of the war and a heavy price was paid in blood, ships and raw materials. When you think about it, this was the battle we couldn't afford to lose. If we had lost it, we would have without any doubt have lost the war. It is also the battle that had in its forefront the men and women of the Merchant Navy and I keep harping on about it but they were never properly recognised. Churchill knew about the importance of this battle and also the importance of the Merchant Navy's role in it As an ex member of HM forces, I am delighted that our armed forces, especially our Naval and Air forces, got the credit they surely deserved for their part in winning this battle but I am disappointed in the recognition given to our allied merchant service. I am the proud son of a merchant seaman who fought in the Battle of the Atlantic. My father never complained, never talked much about it. Maybe too many of our generation feel that there is no point in dragging up the past especially the part of true recognition for the Merchant Navy. Wherever I am I will always speak up for the men and women of the wartime generation but particularly for the men and women of the Merchant Navy. It is the least I can do. Regards Hugh
We talk about the men of Bomber Command not being recognised with a medal and yet they get much more recognition than the Merchant Navy.
Hi Andy, I think that the armed services do get recognition for what they did and they do wholeheartedly deserve it. You could argue that some small units didn’t. I am thinking of the DEMS gunners who fought on MN ships, the trawlers that went to war (Harry Tates Navy). You could also argue that they are recognised by the fact they were Royal Navy, RNR or RNVR servicemen and received collective recognition. The same could be said of other units in the military. The Merchant Navy, however, seem to be forgotten purely because they were seen as a civilian service but as I have already stated we would have lost the war without them. What little recognition they are getting now is too little too late and has taken years of campaigning. Regards Hugh
Thank you all for the sentiments for the Merchant Navy's contribution to both WW I & II and the Battle of the Atlantic in particular. Did you realise that at the start their pay was stopped from the day the vessel sank ... even if they were not picked up after a long time in the lifeboats ...!!
Yes, and it truly beggars belief. Welcome aboard, Barnsey. I think we are members of another forum, aren't we? Regards Hugh
Yup, we sure are Hugh, I hoped it was you Hugh when I saw the name ..... how are you? I caught on to this site through the Obituary of Kryle-Pope ..... which think I have great problems with ... Rear Admiral or not .....!!!! Was I right about the pay being stopped in the early part of the war after their ship was sunk? Stan May wrote extensively ....I'll get the details off him again. My very best regards
Off Pay Hello Barnsey, yes doing ok thanks. Certainly it was true that seamen had their pay stopped before their ships hit the bottom, this was the case at least until June 1941. Those employed by the better companies did get paid although they lost any overtime and War Risk monies. In some cases seamen could be weeks and months in open boats and those lucky enough to get picked up or made landfall would not get a pittance until they signed on Articles again. How unjust was that! It is very difficult to imagine how families of Merchant seamen coped at this time. Best wishes Hugh
It is very difficult to imagine how families of Merchant seamen coped at this time. Best wishes Hugh[/QUOTE] I just cannot even imagine how they coped Hugh .... there were the wartime jobs but that would not have paid a lot Then there were the ships of course .... and crews accommodation food and conditions to start with......but it was ever the lot of the Merchant Navy pre war and during it. David.
My wife's grandfather, as everyone except Barnsey knows, was a DEMS gunner and certainly had his pay stopped when his ship/s sunk. Barnsey, he was on the Viceroy of India and on at least two other ships from what we can determine but no other names yet. He may have been torpedoed twice. I still haven't applied for service records.
Hello Andy, I was wondering how you had progressed with Frank. I think last time I advised that he was a merchant seaman but looking back on the crew agreement he is listed as a Deck Hand in other words a DEMS gunner. He would not have had his pay stopped, Andy. As a member of HM Forces he would be paid no matter what his circumstances. It was different for the ordinary merchant seaman who had to find another ship and quick or it was no pay. This was the case until they developed the Pool system which paid seamen to be available to man ships. Regards Hugh
Belated welcome Barnsey! I have discussed this quite alot over the past few years and also with Hugh. 99.9% of people would be unaware of the despicable way these brave men were treated when their ships were sunk. Hugh's quote of: is spot on the money. We had a Russian chap (visitor) on another forum who when told of the brave men who sailed to Murmansk with supplies for the Russian people, responded with: Whilst bomber command was "recognized" for their efforts to a degree, I put them in a similar position to the MM's. Who would want to do that trip across the Atlantic knowing that you could be blown out of the water at any minute. The lads from bomber command climbed on board night after night knowing their chances of returning were very poor indeed. With respect to the Merchant Navy/Marine, Hugh said it all - Too little, Too late.
