Sunderland captured and used by Germans West Africa

This from Merchant Seafarer Stan Mayes in Gravesend.

"Around midday on 25th August 1942 a Sunderland flying boat circled the ship 3 times and ignored our attempt to contact by Aldis lamp. When we arrived at Freetown some days later we were questioned by RN Intelligence Officers.The Sunderland had been captured and was in use as a spotter plane for U boats and was operating from Dakar..It was shot down later by a Spitfire from Freetown - I would like to know more of this incident."

thats very interesting ... anyone on this forum with information?

Barnsey

 

Barnsey, I have a had a thorough look through Bowyer's Short Sunderland and there is no mention of any captured Sunderlands ever being used. I have checked all serial numbers for aircraft produced upto that date and the fate of them all appear to be accounted for, and no mention of any being captured or destroyed by a Spitfire or any other allied aircraft,

 

He doesn't say where he was when he saw what he saw ..... only thing I could find was on 25 August 1942 the Duke of Kent took off from Invergordon ( which is on the other side of the world from Freetown ! ) in a Short Sunderland flying boat .....
( supposedly on a "secret mission " !! )

Annie hwell:

 

I've loked at the available infomation on captured allied aircraft possily used by the Germands and the Italians, and there is no mention of any Sunderland being used by them, either experimentally or operationally.

They did capture all sorts of aircraft, both intact and damaged, as did the Allies. I've also looed at units operating out of Dakar, which was still Vichy held on that date, but cannot find any information to substantiate this story.

 

An excellent novel about Sunderlands operating out of West Africa and the intrigue and attacks that came at them from Vichy French territory is:

"A Funny Place to hold a War" by John Harris, Book Club Associates 1984.

 

Well, thanks so far lads .... will revert shortly .....

 

Barnsey, do you have any extra info, like a date, position and/or name of the ship? Or which convoy?

 

Kyte ... you have the time and date in my first post ...."Around midday on 25th August 1942" it was not far from Freetown so its thought the aircraft came out of Dakar ....

 

I found the whole piece ... don't know if thats any help ?

Stan Mayes - my Life

Sailing from Montevideo our voyage was uneventful until the morning of 25th August when a Sunderland flying boat circled the ship three times. In spite of trying to make contact with Aldis lamp we received no reply. Eventually the aircraft departed.

At 16:45 0n the same day we were in position 0600N, 1400W and about 200 miles SW of Freetown. Two torpedoes struck the ship on the port side amidships throwing a tremendous column of water into the air and over the Bridge.

Biztek: Right hand button bar

 

Were any Empire flying boats ever captured?

EDIT: that's a good read, thanks, Annie. Haven't read a personal MN account of sinking for a while.

 

Yes, a good read Andy, Stan Mayes has been a good help to me and I keep in touch with him regularly. When it comes to the MN he cannot do enough to help - a true gent.

Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Kyte and all .... I am sorry but I have been very busy of late.

I have received further details about this Sunderland from Stan.

Fact, a Sunderland circled Stans ship, SS Viking Star three times on the morning of August 25th 1942.

They tried to communicate with the aircraft by Aldis but received no reply. They hoisted the ensign and signal letters and continued to fly them for the rest of the day and still had them up when they were torpedoed at 1645 in lat 6 degrees North 14 degrees West.

This is also corroborated by another member of the crew Chief Officer MacQuiston in his interview with the Trade division.

Now it may well have been a Sunderland operated by the RAF and not a captured one operated by the Germans. The German story was told to them when they arrived in Freetown ... certainly the fact they were torpedoed after the aircraft had been seen would make one suspicious .... over to yoy Kyte ... what was operating down that way on that day?

 

I am rather intrigued by the fact that there was suspicion of the aircraft. From other accounts, the implications seem to be that there was communication between the aircraft and the ship:

Viking Star

That statement above does seem to imply they had signalled the aircraft and saw no reason to doubt that the sighting of the aircraft was a positive to their being rescued.

I will try to ascertain where the aircraft may have come from. The only other aircraft that may have been used by the Germans to report to the U-boats was the Condor, and I doubt the two aircraft could be confused.

 

Possibly a West African detachment for a UK-based squadron?

 

95 Squadron?

WEST AFRICA and No. 490 (NZ) SQUADRON | NZETC

The rest of that link makes for interesting reading including the VC for Trigg.

The adventures of those first three Sunderlands...

BBC - WW2 People's War - Derrick & Sunderland T9040

95 was operating out of Bathurst, Gambia at the time of the sighting/sinking.

 

Heres an account of the Tuscan Star a few months later !!!!

Ahoy - Mac's Web Log - The Blue Star Line's Tuscan Star, Torpedoed and sunk. The 6th. of September, 1942. Another Victim of the U-Boat War.

 

As Andy has stated, the most likely units from which the Sunderland could have come from is either 95 Squadron, or another possibility is 204 Squadron. I have marked their bases and roughly where the Viking was sunk (with a X).

Both of the Squadrons' ORBs should be available at the National Archives. Neither squadron seems to have had a history written about them, and I doubt the history of 10 Squadron, RAAF, will have anything on the detachment once it had become a new squadron.

 

Some interesting reading here and a story of the Flying Porcupine and the innovative Aussies in red.

NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Short Sunderland
Operational history


World War II

During the Second World War, although British anti-submarine efforts were disorganized and ineffectual at first, Sunderlands quickly proved useful in the rescue of the crews from torpedoed ships. On 21 September 1939, two Sunderlands rescued the entire 34-man crew of the torpedoed merchantman Kensington Court from the North Sea. As British anti-submarine measures improved the Sunderland began to show its claws as well. A Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) Sunderland performed the type's first unassisted kill of a U-boat on 17 July 1940. is the 264th day of the year (265th in leap years) in the Gregorian calendar. ... Year 1939 (MCMXXXIX) was a common year starting on Sunday (link will display the full calendar) of the Gregorian calendar. ... The North Sea is a sea of the Atlantic Ocean, located between the coasts of Norway and Denmark in the east, the coast of the British Isles in the west, and the German, Dutch, Belgian and French coasts in the south. ... The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) is the Air Force branch of the Australian Defence Force. ... is the 198th day of the year (199th in leap years) in the Gregorian calendar. ... Year 1940 (MCMXL) was a leap year starting on Monday (link will display the full 1940 calendar) of the Gregorian calendar. ...

As aircrew honed their combat skills, the Sunderland Mark I received various improvements to make it more effective. The nose turret was upgraded to two .303 (7.7 mm) guns instead of one, and new propellers together with pneumatic rubber wing deicing boots were also fitted.

Although the .303 guns lacked range and hitting power, the Sunderland had a fair number of them and it was a well built machine that was hard to destroy. On 3 April 1940, a Sunderland operating off Norway was attacked by six German Junkers Ju 88 medium bombers and managed to shoot one down, damage another enough to send it off to a forced landing, and drove off the rest. The Germans are reported to have nicknamed the Sunderland the "Fliegendes Stachelschwein" (Flying Porcupine) due to its defensive firepower and to the several prominent antennas protruding from it. is the 93rd day of the year (94th in leap years) in the Gregorian calendar. ... Year 1940 (MCMXL) was a leap year starting on Monday (link will display the full 1940 calendar) of the Gregorian calendar. ... The Junkers Ju 88 was a WW2 Luftwaffe twin-engine multi-role aircraft. ...

Sunderlands also proved themselves in the Mediterranean theatre. They performed valiantly in evacuations during the German seizure of OpenDNS, carrying a surprising number of passengers, and one performed the reconnaissance mission to observe the Italian fleet at anchor in OpenDNS before the famous Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm's torpedo attack on 11 November 1940; the Battle of Taranto. For other uses, see Crete (disambiguation). ... Taranto is a coastal city in Apulia, southern Italy. ... This article is about the navy of the United Kingdom. ... The Fleet Air Arm is the branch of the Royal Navy responsible for the operation of the aircraft on board their ships. ... is the 315th day of the year (316th in leap years) in the Gregorian calendar. ... Year 1940 (MCMXL) was a leap year starting on Monday (link will display the full 1940 calendar) of the Gregorian calendar. ... This article is about the 1940 battle. ...

New weapons made the flying boats more deadly in combat. In 1939, one 100 lb anti-submarine bomb hit HMS Snapper merely breaking its light bulbs whilst other bombs had reportedly bounced up and hit their launch aircraft. In early 1943 these ineffective weapons were replaced by OpenDNS depth charges that would sink to a predetermined depth and then explode. This eliminated the problem of bounce back, and the shock wave propagating through the water augmented the explosive effect. Torpex is a secondary explosive 50% more powerful than TNT by weight. ...

While the bright Leigh searchlight was rarely fitted to Sunderlands, ASV Mark II radar allowed the flying boats to effectively target U-boats operating on the surface. In response, the German submarines began to carry a radar warning system known as "OpenDNS", also known as the Cross of Biscay due to the appearance of its receiving antenna that was tuned to the ASV frequency and gave the submarines early warning that an aircraft was in the area. The Leigh Light (abbreviated L/L) was a British World War II era anti submarine device used in the Second Battle of the Atlantic. ... This article or section does not cite its references or sources. ...

Kills fell off drastically until ASV Mark III radar was introduced in early 1943, which operated in the centimetric band and used antennas mounted in blisters under the wings outboard of the floats, instead of the cluttered stickleback aerials. Sunderland Mark IIIs fitted with ASV Mark III were designated Sunderland Mark IIIAs.

Centimetric radar was invisible to Metox and completely baffled the Germans at first. Admiral Karl Dönitz, commander of the German U-boat force, suspected that the British were being informed of submarine movements by spies. In August 1943, a captured RAF airman misled the Germans by telling them that the aircraft were homing on the signals radiated by the Metox,[4][5] and consequently U-boat commanders were instructed to turn them off. Karl Dönitz (IPA pronunciation: ) (born 16 September 1891; died 24 December 1980) was a German naval leader, who commanded the German Navy (Kriegsmarine) during the second half of World War II. Dönitz was also President of Germany for 23 days after Adolf Hitlers suicide. ...

In any case, the Germans responded by fitting U-boats with one or two 37 mm and twin quad 20 mm flak guns to shoot it out with the attackers. While Sunderlands could suppress flak to an extent by hosing down the U-boat with their nose turret guns, the U-boats had the edge by far in range and hitting power. To help improve the odds, the Australians first fitted their aircraft in the field with an additional four .303s in fixed mounts in the nose, allowing the pilot to add fire while diving on the submarine before bomb release. Most aircraft were similarly modified. The addition of single .50 calibre (12.7 mm) flexibly mounted M2 Browning machine guns in the (previously emptied) beam hatches behind and above the wing trailing edge also became common. This article is about the . ...


2 June 1943

The rifle calibre .303 guns lacked hitting power, but the Sunderland retained its reputation for being able to take care of itself. This reputation was enhanced by an air battle between eight Ju 88C long range heavy fighters and a single RAAF Sunderland Mark III of No. 461 Squadron RAAF on 2 June 1943. This battle was one of several stories of the type's operations related by author Ivan Southall, who flew in Sunderlands during the war.[6] There were 11 crewmen on board the Sunderland; nine Australians and two British.[7] The crew was on an anti-submarine patrol and also searching for remains of BOAC Flight 777, an airliner that had left OpenDNS the day before and subsequently had been shot down over the Bay of Biscay. A heavy fighter is a fighter aircraft designed to be used in the long-range role, or while carrying heavier weapons loads. ... is the 153rd day of the year (154th in leap years) in the Gregorian calendar. ... Year 1943 (MCMXLIII) was a common year starting on Friday (the link will display full 1943 calendar) of the Gregorian calendar. ... BOAC Flight 777, a scheduled British Overseas Airways Corporation civilian airline flight on 1 June 1943 from Portela Airport in Lisbon, Portugal to an airport at Whitchurch near Bristol, United Kingdom, was attacked by eight German Junkers Ju 88s and crashed into the Bay of Biscay, killing several notable passengers... For other uses, see Lisbon (disambiguation). ... Map of the Bay of Biscay. ... The Junkers Ju 88 was a WW2 Luftwaffe twin-engine multi-role aircraft. ... A No. ...

In the late afternoon, one of the crew spotted the eight Ju 88s. Bombs and depth charges were dumped while the pilot, Flt. Lt. Colin Walker, "redlined" the engines. Two Ju 88s made passes at the flying boat, one from each side, scoring hits and managing to disable one engine while the Sunderland went through wild "corkscrew" evasive manoeuvres. On the third pass of the fighters, the dorsal turret gunner managed to shoot one down. Another Ju 88 disabled the tail turret, but the next fighter that made a pass was hit by the dorsal and nose turrets and was shot down as well. The Junkers Ju 88 was a WW2 Luftwaffe twin-engine multi-role aircraft. ... A Flight Lieutenants sleeve/shoulder insignia Flight Lieutenant (abbreviated as Flt Lt and pronounced as flight lef-tenant, see Lieutenant) is a junior commissioned rank in the Royal Air Force and the air forces of many Commonwealth countries. ...

Still another fighter attacked, destroying the Sunderland's radio gear, wounding most of the crew in varying degrees and mortally wounding one of the side gunners (Flight Sergeant "Ted" Miles). A Ju 88 tried to attack from the rear but the tail turret gunner had managed to regain some control over the turret and shot it down. The surviving fighters continued to attack, but the nose gunner damaged one of these, setting its engines on fire. Two more of the attackers were also hit and the final pair disengaged and departed. Luftwaffe records indicate that the latter were the only two that made it back to base. Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. ...

The Sunderland was heavily damaged. The crew threw everything they could overboard and nursed the aircraft back to the Cornish coast, where Walker managed to land and beach it at Praa Sands. The crew waded ashore, carrying their dead comrade, while the surf broke the Sunderland up. Walker received the Distinguished Service Order and several of the other crew members also received medals. For other uses, see Cornwall (disambiguation). ... Praa Sands (properly pronounced pray; prah or prar are incorrect) is a coastal village in the Parish of Breage, located off the main road between Helston and Penzance in Cornwall, England, UK. Formerly serving the local mining industry, it is now predominantly a tourist-oriented area. ... DSO medal The Distinguished Service Order (DSO) is a military decoration of the United Kingdom, and formerly of other Commonwealth countries, awarded for meritorious or distinguished service by officers of the armed forces during wartime, typically in actual combat. ...

Walker went on to a ground job while the rest of the crew was given a new Sunderland. That Sunderland and its crew disappeared without a trace over the Bay of Biscay two months later after reporting by radio that they were under attack by six Ju 88s.


Postwar

At the end of the Second World War, a number of new Sunderlands built at OpenDNS were simply taken out to sea and scuttled as there was nothing else to do with them. Despite this indignity, there was plenty of life left in the Sunderland. In Europe it was removed from service relatively quickly; however, in the Far East, where well developed runways were less common and large land based maritime patrol aircraft like the new Avro Shackleton could not be used so easily, there was still a need for it, and it remained in service with the Far East Air Force at Singapore until 1959, and with the Royal New Zealand Air Force's No. 5 Squadron RNZAF and No. 6 Squadron RNZAF until 1967. A former RNZAF Sunderland that is yet to be restored is exhibited at the Museum of Transport and Technology, Auckland. This article is about the city in Northern Ireland. ... The Shackleton was a Royal Air Force long-range patrol bomber developed from the Avro Lincoln bomber with a new fuselage. ... The RAF Far East Air Force was the command organisation that controlled all Royal Air Force assets in the east of Asia. ... The Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) is the air force arm of the New Zealand Defence Force. ... At the outbreak of hostilities in the Pacific, operated Short Singapores from Fiji against Japan on maratime patrol and antisubmarine duties. ... A Seasprite of No. ... The Museum of Transport and Technology (MOTAT) is a museum located in Western Springs, Auckland, New Zealand. ... For other uses, see Auckland (disambiguation). ...

A RNZAF Sunderland MR.5 with a USN P-5 and a RAAF P-2 in 1963


During the Berlin Airlift (which lasted from June 1948 until August 1949) ten Sunderlands and two Hythes were used to transport goods—especially salt— from OpenDNS on the OpenDNS near OpenDNS to the isolated city, landing on the OpenDNS lake beside RAF Gatow until it iced over.[8] This is the only known operational use of flying boats within central Europe. The Soviet Union blocked Western rail and road access to West Berlin from June 24, 1948 - May 11, 1949. ... First Touch Down of A380 in Finkenwerder Hamburg Finkenwerder Airport (IATA: XFW, ICAO: EDHI) is an airport in the southwest part of Hamburg, Germany. ... This article is about a river in Central Europe. ... For other uses, see Hamburg (disambiguation). ... Havelsee is a town in the Potsdam-Mittelmark district, in Brandenburg, Germany. ... Gatow Airport is an airport in the city of Berlin, Germany. ...

The French Navy Escadrille 7FE, which received Sunderlands when it was formed in 1943 as No. 343 Squadron RAF, continued to operate them until December 1960, the last unit to operate Sunderlands in the Northern Hemisphere.[9] The French Navy, officially called the National Navy (French: Marine Nationale) is the maritime arm of the French military. ...

RAF Sunderlands also saw service in the Korean War with No. 209 Squadron RAF,[10] and with the Royal New Zealand Air Force until the mid-1960s.[11] Belligerents United Nations: Republic of Korea Australia Belgium Canada Colombia Ethiopia France Greece Luxembourg Netherlands New Zealand Philippines South Africa Thailand Turkey United Kingdom United States Naval Support and Military Servicing/Repairs: Japan Medical staff: Denmark Italy Norway India Sweden DPR Korea PR China Soviet Union Commanders Syngman Rhee Chung... The Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) is the air force arm of the New Zealand Defence Force. ...


Variants

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm .... that does not get us very far then?? 95 and 204 squadron would appear to be targets to seek information from.

Mind apart from the fact we know a Sunderland circled the ship 3 times, that the Viking Star called her up but got no reply is about the sum total of the "action". for that we would have to look at each Sunderlands log book on that date and see what they recorded or alternatively squadron records which would have logged the aircrews reports.

Bummer eh?