Priest in Holocaust row

Kyt · Jan 31, 2009

I hope official action is taken, but I doubt it. It amazes me that priests, who are suppossed to be educated, can hold and vocalise such opinions

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Priest 'joins Nazi Holocaust row'

A priest from a Catholic society rehabilitated by the Pope has questioned the Holocaust, reports say.

Father Floriano Abrahamowicz was quoted as saying that he did not know if anyone had died in Nazi gas chambers.

The reports were carried by Italian newspaper La Tribuna di Treviso, and the AP news agency said Fr Abrahamowicz had confirmed their accuracy.

Last week a bishop, whose expulsion was lifted last week by the Pope, sparked a row by questioning the Holocaust.

Richard Williamson is one of four bishops, who are members of the Society of Pius X, whose excommunication was lifted last week by the Pope.

He outraged Jewish leaders when he said he believed there had been no Nazi gas chambers.

The leader of the group has since said that the views "do not reflect in any way the position of the society".

The Vatican says it was unaware of Bishop Williamson's views on the Holocaust when the decision was made to readmit the group.

'No gas chambers'

The bishop angered Jewish leaders across the world when he told Swedish TV: "I believe there were no gas chambers. I think that 2-300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps but none of them by gas chambers."

Pope Benedict quickly distanced himself from the comments and expressed "full and indisputable solidarity" with Jews.

However, condemnation from Jewish groups was widespread and the Chief Rabbinate of Israel broke off official ties with the Vatican in protest over the Pope's decision to rehabilitate the bishop.

Then Father Abrahamowicz expressed his own doubts about the Holocaust in an interview published on Thursday by Tribuna di Treviso.

"I know gas chambers existed at least to disinfect, I can't say if anybody was killed in them or not," he said.

On Thursday, Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St Pius X, asked for forgiveness from the Pope for the "dramatic consequences" of Bishop Williamson's comments.

Bishop Fellay said he had forbidden Bishop Williamson from speaking publicly about any historical or political questions and that his views "don't reflect in any way the position of the society".

He also referred to the "genocide of Jews" by the Nazis.

'No-one knew'

The cardinal who led negotiations with the society was quoted as saying that no-one at the Vatican knew about Bishop Williamson's views until after the decree lifting the excommunication had been signed.

"We absolutely didn't know anything about this… I really think that no-one was aware of it," Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos said in an interview with Corriere della Sera.

The Society of St Pius X was founded by a French archbishop, Marcel Lefebvre, in 1970 as a protest against the Second Vatican Council's reforms on religious freedom and pluralism.
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Kyt · Jan 31, 2009

A little late for an "apology"

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Holocaust row cleric apologises

A UK-born cleric who denied the existence of Nazi gas chambers has apologised to the Pope for causing any distress - but without retracting.

Richard Williamson also thanked Pope Benedict for allowing him to rejoin the Roman Catholic Church after being excommunicated on an unrelated issue.

He apologised for his "imprudent remarks" in a Swedish TV interview.

Pope Benedict has reiterated his "full and indisputable solidarity" with Jews on the subject of the Nazi death camps.

He has been under pressure from Nobel Peace Prize winner and death camp survivor Elie Wiesel among others to distance himself from Mr Williamson, who was promoted to bishop along with others by the breakaway Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of France.

Mr Williamson, who lives in Argentina, blogged his apology in an open letter to Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, the mediator between the Vatican and the breakaway Catholic faction.

"Amidst this tremendous media storm stirred up by imprudent remarks of mine on Swedish television, I beg of you to accept... my sincere regrets for having caused to yourself and to the Holy Father so much unnecessary distress and problems," he said.

He made no mention of the Holocaust in the brief letter.

In an interview with Swedish TV, he had said: "I believe there were no gas chambers... I think that two to three hundred thousand Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps but none of them by gas chambers."

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi, contacted by AFP news agency, refused to comment on the content of the letter, saying only: "The Vatican has asked nothing of Monsignor Williamson, who is not an 'ordinary bishop' of the Catholic Church."

Mr Williamson and three other "bishops" whose excommunications were lifted are members of the Society of St Pius X, which was founded by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1970 as a protest against the Second Vatican Council's reforms on religious freedom and pluralism.

The late Archbishop Lefebvre made them bishops in unsanctioned consecrations in Switzerland in 1988, prompting the immediate excommunication of all five by the late Pope John Paul II.

When it recently lifted their excommunication, the Vatican said the four men had been asked to recognise the authority of the Pope and the Second Vatican Council.
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Kitty · Jan 31, 2009

Oh dear lord where do these people crawl out from?

Gage · Jan 31, 2009

Kitty said: ↑

Oh dear lord where do these people crawl out from?
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Agreed. From stupidville.

Kitty · Jan 31, 2009

I think he'd be chucked out of Stupidville for being too cretinous

Kyt · Feb 5, 2009

It's even worse than I thought. The interview is mind boggling

Le Défi Media Group - « Lies, lies, lies » - no Jews killed in gas chambers by Nazis?

In November 2008, on All Saints Day, British Bishop Richard Williamson, the auxiliary Bishop of The Society of St. Pius X brotherhood, went to a Zaitkofen castle near Regensburg, Germany, to make a Swedish convert Sten Sandmark into a deacon of the Society. On the sidelines, and totally unconnected with the function Bishop Williamson was attending, Stockholm TV reporter Ali Fagan interviewed the Bishop in the castle’s chapel on the latter’s belief that not one Jew was gassed in gas chambers by the Nazis during World War II based on what the Bishop had said in 1989 at Notre-Dame-de-Lourdes church in Sherbrooke, Canada. The interview was aired on 21 January 2009. Below is a transcript of this interview.

INTERVIEWER ALI FAGAN - « Bishop Williamson, are these your words? “There was not one Jew killed by the gas chambers. It was all lies, lies, lies.” Are these your words? »

BISHOP WILLIAMSON - « You are quoting from Canada, I believe, yes, many years ago. I believe that the historical evidence, the historical evidence is strongly against, is hugely against six million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolph Hitler. »

ALI FAGAN - « But you say not one Jew was killed. »

BISHOP WILLIAMSON - « In gas chambers. »

ALI FAGAN - « There was no gas chambers? »

BISHOP WILLIAMSON - « I believe there were no gas chambers, yes. I think, as far as I have studied the evidence, I am not going by emotion, as far as I have understood the evidence, I think, for instance, people who are against what is widely believed today about, quote unquote, the holocaust, I think that people, those people conclude, the revisionists as they are called, I think the most serious conclude that between 200- and 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, but not one of them by gassing in a gas chamber.

You may have heard of the Leuchter Report. Fred Leuchter was an expert in gas chambers. He designed three gas chambers for three states, three of the fifty United States for the execution of criminals. So he knew what’s involved. And he studied what the supposed gas chambers in Germany, at some point of the 1980’s, what remains of the supposed gas chambers, the crematoria in Birkenau, Auschwitz for instance. And his conclusion, his expert conclusion was it’s impossible that these could ever have served for the gassing of large numbers of people, because cyanide gas is very dangerous. If you, let’s suppose you gas 300 people that you’ve crowded into one chamber and you gas them, and they were already wearing some clothes, for instance if they were wearing any clothes, it’s very dangerous to go in to pull out the corpses, because one whiff of gas that’s strapped in the clothing will kill the person. It’s extremely dangerous. In order to .., once you have gassed people, you’ve got to get rid of, you’ve got to evacuate the gas to be able to get into the chamber again and use it. To evacuate the gas you need a high chimney. If it’s a low chimney, the gas goes onto the pavement and kills anybody walking by. You need a high chimney, right. Forget how high he says it must be. If you, if there was a high chimney, then the shadow, most times of the day the shadow would have fallen on the ground, and the allied aerial photographers that flew over the camps would have picked up the shadow of this chimney. There were never any such shadows. There was no such chimney, which is Gordon Fred Leuchter’s testimony “there can’t have been gas chambers”. He looks at the doors, and then he says the door has to be absolutely airtight. Otherwise, again, the gas escapes and kills the people outside. The doors of the gas chamber that is shown to tourists in Auschwitz are absolutely not airtight, absolutely not. »

ALI FAGAN - « What you are saying now is that the Holocaust never occurred, not in the way historians see it today ».

BISHOP WILLIAMSON - « I am going by what I judge to be the historical evidence according to people who have observed and examined that evidence. I believe that what they conclude, if they change their conclusion, I would be liable to follow their conclusion because I think they judge by the evidence. I think that two to three hundred thousand Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, but nothing like, but none of them via a gas chamber. »

ALI FAGAN - « But if this not anti-Semitism, what is anti-Semitism?

BISHOP WILLIAMSON - « Anti-Semitism, if anti-Semitism is bad, it’s against truth. If something is true, it’s not bad. I am not interested in the word anti-Semitism, I mean, the word is very dangerous ».

ALI FAGAN - « The Bishop [he does not say who] calls you anti-Semite ».

BISHOP WILLIAMSON - « The Bishop can call me, he can call me a Dinosaur, he can call me an idiot, he can call me what he likes. This is not a question of name calling. This is a question of historical truth. Historical truth goes by evidence and not by emotion. There’s certainly been a huge exploitation. Germany has paid out billions and billions of Deutschmarks and now Euros because
the Germans have a guilt complex about their having gassed six million Jews. But I don’t think six million Jews were gassed. Now, be careful, I beg of you, this is against the law in Germany. You could have me thrown into prison before I leave Germany. I hope that’s not your intention. »

The Society of Saint Pius X
Vatican City, Jan 24, 2009 - In a move to achieve unity in the Church, « Pope Benedict XVI has lifted the excommunication of the four bishops [including Bishop Richard Williamson] from the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) ordained by Marcel Lefebvre in 1988 ». This Society was founded in 1970 by French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and celebrates the Mass in Latin to this day. The Bishops were excommunicated in 1988 by Pope Jean Paul II for defying his authority since the 1988 Episcopal consecrations were performed by the late Marcel Lefebvre without pontifical mandate. At the same time, the Society does not recognise the legitimacy of the Second Vatican Council which absolved the Jewish people of the charge of « deicide » (killing of a god, in this case Jesus) and adopted the term « anti-Semitism ». The Church has been criticised for allowing infiltration by Zionists for the benefit of Israel-in-Palestine. During WW2, Aron Jean-Marie Lustiger rejected Judaism and became a Catholic to save his life. Although he was admitted into the Church as a reward and became Archbishop in Paris, he claimed that he was still Jewish and a fervent supporter of Israel, and advocated that all Catholics are Jews. Born Karol Józef Wojtyła, the late Pope John Paul II, who excommunicated the Bishops of the Society of St. Pius X, had similar Polish roots to Archbishop Lustiger and, said to have a Jewish mother in the name of Emilia Kaczorowski (Emily Katz in English), he was raised exclusively among Jews. He also beatified other Jews who ‘converted’ to Christianity but who remained Jewish all the same, such as Edith Stein in 1987, who he later canonised. Pope John Paul II accepted the Zionists’ version of the holocaust and departed from the Vatican policy not to recognise Israel-in-Palestine and embraced the Jewish state while effectively condoning the Al Nakba-deniers.

Truth Seekers
Holocaust researchers, such as David Cole (son of Orthodox Jews), Pr Norman Finkelstein (another Jew), and many more Jews and non-Jews alike, have been persecuted for bringing what they believe to be the truth based on evidence which contradicts the contention that six million Jews were gassed by the Nazis during World War II. To prevent those truth seekers from stating researched facts and communicating their findings about the holocaust and the serious doubts cast over the alleged gassing of Jews, many European countries, including Germany, Austria and France, have passed draconian laws to force people to accept the Zionists’ version as an article of faith in the holocaust ‘religion’. Anyone who questions the holocaust is accused of being a ‘holocaust-denier’, an anti-Semite (a ‘Jew-hater’) or a ‘revisionist’, or all at the same time. The term ‘self-hating Jew’ is used to describe a Jew who questions the holocaust. Many so-called revisionists were forced to recant, such as David Cole. Bishop Williamson said he was not interested in the word « anti-Semitism ». In fact, Arabs of all faiths are regarded as the true Semites, and Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic as Semitic languages.

Many researchers also find it strange why the Nazi army, reputed as a killing machine, would go through the high expense of transporting 6 million Jews to concentration camps, pay their train tickets from France, for example, feed them for days, weeks, months and even years, in order to gas them. Many are also asking how the other 50-60 million victims of World War II were killed and why this is not regarded as the true holocaust also deserving reparation. It is argued that the holocaust is being kept alive as an ‘industry’ (ref. Pr Norman Finkelstein) in order to extract benefits and so that the ‘world’ can continue to accept the creation of Israel in Palestine, the stealing of Palestinian lands and the real and well documented holocaust of Palestinians. The beliefs of Bishop Richard Williamson are seen as a grave threat to the holocaust institution, monopolised by Jews, and to Israel as the Church tries to maintain unity and integrity and starts to reject the counterfeit ‘Church’ of Judeo-Masonry within the Church proper.

Mel Gibson’s « The Passion of the Christ » depicting the truth of the charge of « deicide » never shown before by an equally Zionist-controlled Hollywood has sent the Judeo-Masonry institution reeling and attacking Mel Gibson, a fervent Catholic, as an anti-Semite.

Conclusion
« Even the Auschwitz museum has lowered the number of Jews killed there from 4 million to 1.5 million, and Red Cross records reveal far fewer than 1 million deaths », point out many researchers. Although Bishop Williamson said that, based upon the evidence, he believes that there was not a single Jew gassed in gas chambers by the Nazis in WW2, he is being attacked in various Jewish quarters and in a pro-Jewish section of the Church as well and being called all sorts of names. Many argue that, like Jesus Christ, Bishop Williamson has a penchant for speaking the truth - See John 8:44 : « Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. » It is not denied that a great number of Jews died in Nazi concentration camps and during the war, but there were many more non-Jews who also died in those camps, and there were also many other holocausts. For example, millions of Christians were killed in the Soviet Union at the hands of mainly Jewish Communists, many of whom immigrated to Israel after 1948.
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Kyt · Feb 5, 2009

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | 'Holocaust bishop' told to recant

The Vatican has ordered an ultra-traditionalist bishop to publicly recant his views denying the Holocaust.

A statement said British Bishop Richard Williamson must "unequivocally" distance himself from his statements to serve in the Roman Catholic Church.

The Vatican also said that the Pope had not been aware of the bishop's views when he lifted excommunications on him and three other bishops last month.

Earlier, a senior cardinal acknowledged the Vatican had mishandled the issue.

The Pope's decision, ending Bishop Williamson's excommunication on an unrelated matter, has caused a bitter row, as the bishop does not believe that Jews were gassed by the Nazis in World War II.

The BBC's David Willey in Rome says it is almost unheard of for a pope to admit publicly that he has made a mistake. But that is in effect the significance of the urgent statement put out by the Vatican, our correspondent adds.

"Bishop Williamson, in order to be admitted to the Episcopal functions of the Church, must in an absolutely unequivocal and public way distance himself from his positions regarding the Shoah [Holocaust]," it said.

It said Bishop Williamson's positions on the Holocaust were "absolutely unacceptable and firmly rejected by the Holy Father".

Clarification call

On Tuesday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel urged the Pope - who is also German - to make a clearer rejection of Holocaust denials.

"This is not just a matter, in my opinion, for the Christian, Catholic and Jewish communities in Germany but the Pope and the Vatican should clarify unambiguously that there can be no denial," she said.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, who is in charge of relations between the Roman Catholic Church and Jewish leaders, admitted different parts of the Vatican administration had not talked enough to each other, and failed to check where problems could arise.

Bishop Williamson - who was ex-communicated 20 years ago on an unrelated matter - has apologised for stirring controversy, but not repudiated his views.

Last November, the British-born bishop angered Jewish people across the world when he told Swedish TV: "I believe that the historical evidence is strongly against, is hugely against six million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler."

"I believe there were no gas chambers [during World War II]."

Bishop Williamson said that "revisionists" of the Holocaust believed that up to "300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps but not one of them by gassing in a gas chamber".

He is one of four bishops, who are members of the Society of Pius X, whose excommunication was lifted last month by the Pope.

The Vatican's statement on Wednesday also said that the society must recognise the reformist Vatican II Council of 1962-65 and the popes who followed it.
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Kyt · Feb 27, 2009

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Vatican rejects bishop's apology

The Vatican has rejected an apology by a British bishop who denied the full extent of the Holocaust.

It said the bishop needed to "unequivocally and publicly" withdraw his comments.

Earlier, Jewish leaders said the bishop had failed to address the issue of whether he believed that the Holocaust was a lie.

Richard Williamson said if he had known the full harm his comments would cause, he would not have made them.

'Ambiguous' apology

The bishop said that his opinions had been formed "20 years ago on the basis of evidence then available".

But Vatican spokesman Rev Federico Lombardi said the bishop "does not seem to respect the conditions" it set after he had made the comments.

Meanwhile Renzo Gattegna, the president of Italy's Jewish Communities, described the apology as "absolutely ambiguous".

Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder and dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, said the statement "is not the kind of an apology that would end this matter" because it failed to address the central issue.

The row began after Bishop Williamson was reinstated into the Church.

The Vatican has been embroiled in an international row after Pope Benedict XVI lifted an excommunication order on the British bishop in January.

Church leaders said the Pope had not been aware at the time of an interview given by the bishop, a member of the traditionalist Society of St Pius X (SSPX), to a Swedish TV programme last November.

In it, he disputed that six million Jews had been killed by the Nazis, and said that none had died in gas chambers.

The Pope has since called on Bishop Williamson to recant his views.

In a statement published on the SSPX website, the bishop says his superior, Bishop Bernard Fellay, and the Pope "requested that I reconsider the remarks I made on Swedish television four months ago, because their consequences have been so heavy".

"Observing these consequences I can truthfully say that I regret having made such remarks, and that if I had known beforehand the full harm and hurt to which they would give rise, especially to the Church, but also to survivors and relatives of victims of injustice under the Third Reich, I would not have made them."

He added: "On Swedish television I gave only the opinion… of a non-historian, an opinion formed 20 years ago on the basis of evidence then available and rarely expressed in public since.

"However, the events of recent weeks and the advice of senior members of the Society of St Pius X have persuaded me of my responsibility for much distress caused. To all souls that took honest scandal from what I said before God I apologise."

The BBC's religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott says the apology stops short of fully recanting the bishop's earlier statements.

The bishop was one of four ultraconservative SSPX bishops whose excommunications were lifted by Pope Benedict XVI on an unrelated matter.

He is back in the UK after being expelled from Argentina earlier this week for concealing "the true motive for his stay in the country".
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liverpool annie · Feb 27, 2009

Oh K ... you're getting me going today ... this man should be excommunicated again .... seems to me he has no right to make a statement like this ....

To all souls that took honest scandal from what I said before God I apologise
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What a hypocrite ! .... and whats this all about ? somethings not right here !

He is back in the UK after being expelled from Argentina earlier this week for concealing "the true motive for his stay in the country"
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Sorry I shouldn't talk about religion and politics ..... makes my blood boil ! :mmph:

Antipodean Andy · Feb 28, 2009

The mind boggles at what evidence he supposedly refers to.

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