If I have put this in the wrong place, please move it appropriately. Is Douglas Bader a suitable candidate for a plinth in Trafalgar Square too? BBC NEWS | UK | Blue plaque for war hero Bader He was an inspiration to many in my age group and in addition to his WW2 exploits his work after the war certainly deserves recognition.
Hmmm.... undoubtedly a great pilot and a great leader, but I'm not sure that I would go as far as a plinth on Trafalgar Square. Others made as least as much contribution: Stanford Tuck, "Sailor" Malan, Al Deere. The highest scoring Allied ace in the BofB was Frantisek, a Czech; the highest scoring British ace was Stanley Lock who is scarcely remembered [MIA 1941]. Bader's Big Wing theory remains controversial, and perhaps he was a leader who was respected rather than loved. He could certainly be arrogant - perhaps this was the downside of the determination needed to overcome his disability, but his (alleged) treatment of his batman in Colditz, Alec Ross does not make edifying reading. I hope this doesn't sound like hero-bashing; I don't criticise such brave men lightly; but some are more flawed than others.
True; in the case of Lock I meant highest-scoring British ace in the Battle of Britain. Pattle was truly a great leader and an inspiration to his men; his victories were scored in less than a year, mainly on Gladiator biplanes over Africa and the Med.
I think it would be difficult to choose any one individual pilot, no matter how good they were. It wouldn't be fair on the others. But if we were to choose one, hypothetically, from fighter command, then I would nominate the only FC VC - James Nicolson
i am really confuused withe this man! I have heard that he was a great polit for thee british but i have heard nasty stories on him too. I am not shore if he shuold be classed as one! Shold a hero be great withe everything???
No one is perfect, Heidi. That's often what make our heroes all the more remarkable. Do your own research and come to your own opinions. No one here will criticise you for an informed opinion about one of the best known pilots of the war. If you haven't read them already, start with Paul Brickhill's Reach for the Sky and John Frayn Turner's Douglas Bader. I'm afraid I haven't read any other books on him as it's a bit outside my main focus. A few of the guys on here will be able to recommend other books to round things out.
Tarnished Heroes Hi Andy. I have no doubt someone, somewhere will prattle on about the shortcomings of Winston Churchill, declaring he was self-centred, glory-seeking, rude to all (fools) he met. Ungracious, cigarsmoking, alcoholic and womaniser, egotistical in the extreme, forgetting to mention somehow he was honourable, I wish he was with us today to sort out the money-grubbing, dishonourable idiots we have in charge, as he sorted out the fools and problems of yesterday. It is a shame these empty vessels weren't around when opinionated, self-centred fools like them could have stood in for the brave men, who can't answer back, before they were lost. For the rest of the forum, how do you sort out the bravest and best. By their number of kills ? By their number of sorties ? By their being able to overcome fear, and get on with it ? The number of medals they have ? Every pilot, I have ever read about, well known and otherwise has confessed to being frightened, beyond belief, every time he flew into action, wondering if this was it. the last one, but got on with it. They were flying out to kill or be killed! There can be no question who was the bravest, the lucky ones who got through the day, or the novice killed on his first outing. To go as they went puts them all in the same league as far as I'm concerned. "THE BRAVEST OF THE BRAVE" Keith
If they served, they have my respect. Medals usually mean they saw more than most and so might have more to tell but I've come across plenty of aircrew who 'just' have campaign medals who are equally as remarkable.
I read things on thee internet,and it was much good things about Bader,but with other members i have came across,I receive bad reports. he was a great british polit.
Group Captain Sir Douglas Bader, CBE, DSO, DFC, Legion d'Honneur, Croix de Guerre Hi Heidi, I adore it when someone shows the common sense you obviously have, not depending on sour grapes reports of some with nothing better to do. I can only repeat what has been said to you before, if possible find and play the DVD "Reach for the Sky" starring Kenneth More, a very good representation of Bader and his bumptious, gung-ho type of personality. Failing that, read the book from which the film was made. If your appetite for more information is then aroused, read "Douglas Bader" by John Frayn Turner. You will then wind up like me, and very many others, holding Douglas Bader in high esteem, overlooking his faults, and admiring his contribution to the war effort, then after that his selfless help and advice to others with disabilities long after the war. Ask yourself, in real life, if you were asked to fly against an enemy with the full knowledge you were entering a fight to the death against far superiour odds, to kill or be killed, would you do it? Cheers Keith
I have prited some infomation about douglas bader whiche came frome "Douglas Bader" but it was just a bit of the book,not the whole thing. Yes,he had bad faults,but every one has bad faults,i don't know why people pick on him for,while the nazi germany ace pilot becames a hero in allied members eyes (meanning us) does not make any sence! The answer to yuo're last questioned is- um.......well,i am not shore,i don;t think i am good marterial for a battle against full trined emeney pilots,i would leave it to the Allied pilot experts.
Hi Heidi In time, as we aquire more experience in life, we begin to realise it is foolish to accept on face value the spoutings of disgruntled informants. I know, I have been fooled a few times, by faulty information. Form, from your own research on the subject, the worth of the information you have been given. The computer is a marvelous tool for doing this, but realise that even there you will come across biased judgements. Delve in various directions, until you have obtained a very broad picture of the subject you are interested in. Then form your own conclusions. Never forget that those with little knowledge, seem to shout the loudest, to get their versions accepted. Hope I have helped, Cheers Keith
Banter - Johnson and Bader with Stanford Tuck and 'Birdie and Hoppy Hodgkinson another 'legless' pilot': RAF Coltishall 1959: http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/209623 http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/110556
