Flying Officer P L (Leo) McCartin RAAF (75NZ sqd)

419328 Flying Officer Leo McCartin was shot down and killed over Germany on 20.11.44. He is buried in Reichswald Forest War Cemetery.

He was flying Lancasters with 75(NZ) squadron.

Can anyone tell me where i might find details of what happened to his aircraft - I understand that one of the crew survived.

Is there a squadron history/diary that I could get access to ?

 

Hi Paul and welcome !

Looks like they were quite a family ! ... do you have this already ?

Amiens, Amiens Cathedral - Amiens Defence 1918

Annie

 

Lancaster ND911 lost on mission to Homberg

Took off at 12.47 on 20/11/1944 from Mepal. Cause of loss and crash-site not established. Of the six crew-men killed, two are buried in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery and four are buried in the Rheinberg War Cemetery.

F/O P L McCartin RAAF
Sgt W J Warlow
Sgt J Miles
F/O L A Martin
F/Sgt P F Smith RAAF
Sgt D G A Bryer
Sgt J Gray PoW

Unfortunately, neither of the Australian members' casualty files have been digitised on the Australian Archives so i cannot see whether there was a postwar investigation.

However, there is a history of 75 Squadron called Forever Strong - 75 NZ Sqn 1916-90 by Franks, which may have more details

Sgt J Gray was interned in Camp L7 PoW No.1241

 

G'day Paul, welcome aboard. Do you have any details of the crew at all? If one of them was a Kiwi, highly likely, I may be able to hunt down further details in the Volume 3 of Errol Martyn's For Your Tomorrow which details all Kiwis killed on flying duties. Unfortunately, I have been unable to get hold of Vol 2 (sold out) which specifically covers 1944 etc.

I imagine some of the guys on here will be able to provide a crew list and details of the aircraft lost.

Here's a great pic you've probably already come across:
Amiens, Amiens Cathedral - Amiens Defence 1918

The AWM holds these documents:

Spidge on here might also have some details and a photo of his headstone as he is collating information on all Australian aircrew lost during the war.

A few more minor details here:
AWM Collection Record: P04003.001 - Portrait of 419328 Flying Officer (FO) Patrick Leo McCartin, RAAF, 75 Squadron RAF, of Geelong, Vic, with another crew member in the cockpit of a Lancaster bomber which has completed 70 ...

Amazingly, the AWM holds an item of Leo's uniform! It would appear this was donated by his nephew.
AWM Collection Record: REL31182.002 - RAAF winter service dress tunic : Flying Officer P L McCartin, 75 (New Zealand) Squadron, RAF

What's your interest in him?

 

Hmm, no mention of Kiwis in the crew so will check Max Lambert's Night after Night for any potential mention of the raid and losses suffered by 75.

 

Thanks - yes we do. Lt Leo McCartin is my wife's great uncle - served at Gallipoli and KIA France August 1918, 2 days short of his 24th Birthday and three months short of the Armistice.

Flying Officer Patrick Leo - known as Leo - was named after him. He is my wife's uncle. We were lucky enough to be able to visit Reichswald Forest War Cemetery in 2005 to pay our respects.

We have just (almost) completed researching Lt McCartin's history and found the Great War Forum to be of terrific assistance so went in search of something similar for WW2 - and here we are.

We are looking forward to learning more about Leo McCartin with the assistance of the knowledgeable people on this Forum.

 

Thanks for the welcome - we are looking forward to learning from you guys.

The uniform and cap held by the AWM were donated by one of Leo's sisters - all three siblings are still with us.

 

Well already we've learnt more than we started with - Thank you so much.

I'll track down a copy of the squadron history.

Could I trouble you for some further advice:

if none of the other crew are NZers where could I go to establish their nationality and track down their records etc?
is there a source of info about Camp L7 PoW No 1241?​

is it possible to get the history of Lancaster ND 911?

I have obtained a copy of Leo McCartin's service record from the National Archives - there is no mention of the action in which he was killed. Is that what you meant by his casualty record?

Thanks again for your assistance with this

Merry Christmas to all

 

Paul, it is quite likely the crew not listed as RAAF are British.

She was on a daylight raid as indicated by Kyt

:

Fate s/n ND500 - NE181

 

RAF History - Bomber Command 60th Anniversary

G-H was a development of Oboe and an effective blind bombing system. It used two radio stations to determine the point of bomb release.

A fascinating diary extract from F/L Richard P Perry, a Kiwi with No. 218 Squadron. The Homberg radi was his 10th and his diary recalls the fate of three aircraft:
Excerpts from the Diary of F/L Richard P. Perry

Another aircraft lost on the same raid was:

Not sure as to squadron yet.

 

Hi All,

Here's one link to Reischwald Cemetery. It gives the plot number, etc for Flying Officer P L (Leo) McCartin RAAF (75NZ sqd) .

Patrick Leo Mccartin ( - 1944) - Find A Grave Memorial

I'll try and find another I had that featured the headstones of aircrew. It was useful in my research on LM677.

Regards,

Owen

 

I found just a tad more ...

Serial Range ND324 - NE181

This aircraft was one of 600 Lancaster Mk.111s ordered from A.V.Roe (Chadderton) and delivered from Dec 43 to May 44 with Merlin 38 engines.

ND911 was one of three No.75 Sqdn Lancasters lost on this operation.
( See PB689; PB250.)

ND911 took part in the following Key Operations -

Duisberg 21/22 May 44; Stuttgart 24/25 Jul 44; Stuttgart 28/29 Jul 44; Franfurt 12/13 Sep 44

Lost Bombers - World War II Lost Bombers

 

186 squadron Andy!

 

I am the grandson of Sgt John Gray who was on Lancaster PB689 with Flying Officer Patrick Leo McCartin. My grandfather was the rear gunner and was the only survivor when the aircraft was lost.

I have a photograph of the crew if you are interested.

 

A very lucky man your grandfather. Let him know that I am collecting the photos of the 11,038 RAAF/RAF Aussies that are buried or memorialised in 66 countries. I have nearly 9,000 in two years, so not that far to go.

Photo would be great. Do you have a list of the remaining crew?

By the way, welcome to the forum.

 

Yes, he was very lucky. He later survived the notorious POW marches during the winter of 1945 as well.

I couldn't get image posting working here, so I have upload the photo to my Flickr account. You can view it here: Bomber crew Lancaster VJN ND 911 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I've posted the crew list on the photo as well. I think my grandfather has photographs of the crew's grave.

There is some confusion over the aircraft designation. LostBombers lists it as PB689, while other sources as ND911 (which was another aircraft lost on the same raid). My grandad told my father the aircraft was NV911, which I suspect was a case of my father mishearing ND911. Still not 100% sure though.

 

Great info.

I have a photo of McCartin's grave however Rheinberg is still not completed. I have about 900 of the 1399 RAAF lads in Germany.

View attachment 3531

 

Hi s(?)

We are stunned - to think that we have been able to make contact with you - and that you still have your grandad!!

My name is Paul Hickey. My wife is Anne Hickey (nee McCartin) - the niece of Patrick Leo (known as Leo) McCartin.

We have only just returned home from England (after losing the Ashes, but we're not talking about the cricket!!!) and your post was made while we were away. At a family gathering on the weekend we were talking about how to progress our research on Leo and the crew of the Lancaster. I checked this post just now to find this!!!

I am attaching - i hope - three photos that you will be interested in.

We will send you a personal message and attach these photographs to make sure that you receive them

View attachment 3697

View attachment 3698

View attachment 3699

Leo was named after his uncle Lieutenant Leo Aloysius McCartin MC who fought at gallipoli and was killed in France on 18 August 1918 - there is a brief story on the two Leo'sat this site - Amiens, Amiens Cathedral - Amiens Defence 1918. You will also see some of this at the Australian War Memorial site - Australian War Memorial.

We are so pleased that you found our original post.

Thanks to all those who have contributed to our research.

If the personal Message doesnt work our addresses are
paul.hickey@bigblue.net.au
annehickey@bigblue.net.au - note no . to separate these names

Cheers

Anne and Paul Hickey

 

Thanks for the information Paul. I'm sorry to report that the surviving member of this crew, Sgt Gray, died yesterday 26 September 2009 after being ill for a few weeks.

 

Stuart

We are saddened to hear that news.

Your Grandad must have been a strong and brave man - to have survived the loss of the aircraft and the ensuing hardships as a POW with such injuries is an amazing story.

Please accept the condolences of the McCartin family here in Australia.

Rest In Peace - Sgt John Gray

Anne and Paul Hickey