Hey all, I've been doing research on my great uncle (P/O D.J. Marks DFM) and his crew who were lost on July 29, 1943 with Lancaster III ED862/P. I'm thinking of seeing if the crew has any surviving relatives, so I can get in touch with them. I've also looked at Helmut Lent's operational record on the net, and at my great uncle's operational record, and it says he was possibly shot down by Helmut Lent. Below is the information from a website I found; 73 30.7.1943 2:10 Lancaster IV./NJG 1 RM 66d in See I've always wondered if this kill was ED862, but I'm at a dead end. Any help is appreciated to get me in the right direction.
To start with a hell of a lot of aircraft were lost on that night, as you probably know. Assuming that he identified the aircraft correctly as a Lancaster, then of the following the possibles are marked in bold. It should be noted that his claim was over the North Sea: JA692 Lost in the target are (hamburg) ED468 crashed on takeoff ED616 Shotdown by Flak in the target locale ED782 Shot down by a night-fighter and crashed into the North Sea. All but two of the crew were found and buried ED862 Lost without trace EE172 Shotdown by night fighter (not a candidate because it seems to have been shotdown over land) ED822 Shotdown by night fighter (not a candidate because it seems to have been shotdown over land) ED535 shot down by a night-fighter (Lippe-Weissenfeld of 111./NJG1) JA689 shot down by a night-fighter (Lövenich of II./ JG 300) ED534 Lost without trace ED931 Shot down by a night-fighter, exploded and crashed at Tostedt. ED598 shot down by a night-fighter (not a candidate because it seems to have been shotdown over land) However, it may not have been a Lancaster! It maybe worth asking in the Luftwaffe section of Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Powered by vBulletin as there are many experts who have access to original documents etc
Hello Pathfinder. ED 862 was my father's aircraft. He and his crew flew many missions in this aircraft the last being 25/7/43 to Essen before being stood down for a rest. Attached are photographs of this aircraft with my father's crew. Here is a link to 97 Squadron orbs pertinent to this time frame. 97 Squadron Association - Flight Operations 97 Squadron Association - Flight Operations
Thanks Dave. Kyt, I've asked at the forum you mentioned. I was just wondering, if Lent did not shoot them down, maybe engine trouble or battle damage caused ED862 to ditch in the North Sea?
I am currently drawing ED862 in a vector-graphics drawing program. It's amazing to find two people who had family members fly this aircraft! I must admit that I was attracted by the photo with the 6 crew members posing with the "SPURIUS" name visible. It looks like there were seven bomb outlines visible in that photo, and if I'm not mistaken, the aircraft was lost on its 11th operation with the Marks crew, right? I have some questions about this aircraft, and if either of you (Pathfinder or David Layne) answer them, I would greatly appreciate it. Was the aircraft equipped with H2S? (In one of the photos, it looks like the belly is 'clean'.) In the photos of the Fletcher (Layne) crew, where was the 7th member? Or, was that him in the white T-shirt in one of the photos without the crew names? Are there any photos of the Marks crew or any other known photos of ED862? Did the aircraft carry a "P" just aft of the bomb-aimers window? Did the aircraft have the device that resulted in the nose perspex having the two circles visible on the front? Any help would be appreciated and will help with the overall accuracy. I will gladly post/e-mail the resulting illustration. I've never drawn a "live" historical aircraft before (normally I do it for work!), and it's turning out to be both an amazing experience and a labor of love. Best regards, David
Howdy neighbour. How fascinating that you are doing a drawing of this particular aircraft, I await the results with great interest. I am sorry that I cannot help you with any of your questions other than the one about the crew members. I presume that the seventh crew member took the photograph. The chap in the background is what the Brit's call an "erk," one of the ground personnel.
Spurius Hi Pathfinder. My Uncle was Douglas Fentiman, Flight Engineer with Douglas Marks crew, all lost with ED862P (Spurius). Do you or any of your family, have any photos of your Great Uncle and his crew? Thank you Barry
Welcome to the site Barry. I presume you have seen this picture of your uncle, do you have other pictures of the crew?
I will have a look to see regarding photos. I do have one of the crew but not of the plane, although I see the the Fletcher crew are shown with ED862. Yes I would love a copy of the illustration when finished. AFN Barry
Hi David, yes I supplied it!! I do have a picture of the crew somewhere are a debrief after an op, but I would like to find someone that has a photo of the crew standing in front of ED862P!! Thanks for all your input. Barry
Ed862 Hi Barry, Record from the Avro Lancaster, The Definitive Record, Author Harry Holmes. Hope it helps, Cheers Keith
Spurius - ED862P Pathfinder: With regard to the radio message. Do you have the time it was recorded? Also they refer to the plane as Sugar. To the best of my knowledge ED862P was not known as Sugar although its name "Spurius" began with S. Its squadron marking was OF-P so normally it would have been called something beginning with P. Regarding other planes lost that night, the only one I can find that could be S for Sugar is the Stirling from 218 Squadron EE905 HA-S. This plane was lost to Flak over the Hamburg target area around 0100hours. Barry
Hi Barry. We haven't seen Pathfinder for a while but I think the radio message you refer to is his signature and is from a fiction piece he is writing about a Lanc crew. Forgive me if we're referring to different things.
Hi Pathfinder, I have just joined WWII Chat. My Uncle if he had survived the war was the rear gunner on ED862. His name was also John Cumming. Having just become a member of the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, where one of the last flying Lancasters still live on, I had decided to try and find out more about what happened and by chance was directed to this site. I will try and find out more information. Thank you for your info so far. John.
Hi John, welcome aboard. We haven't heard from Pathfinder for a while now but if you click on his username you'll be able send him an email. He's a younger bloke so I don't know if study etc has got in the way.
