Guys this is a photo of my Great Uncle, John Bartholemew who was killed in 1915 on the front. We know very little of him suffice to say he was in South Africa during the Boer War as well. Can anyone here ID the cap badge for me so I can start some positive searching, no records seem to exist but if I had the regiment it would be a great place to start. Many thanks.
Hi Hog, Just had a look at the cap badge, though not the clearest view but i am 99% sure its the Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regt. If you could get a closer scan of the cap badge and post it up i can make sure it is what i think it is. If he served in South Africa he would of served alongside my great grandfather and was part of the relief column that saved Fort Ladysmith. I believe that he was in the 1st Battalion which fought around Ypres from 1914 to 1916. I didn't follow the battalion after 1915 as both people i was interested in were killed during that year. I have checked the CWGC website but can find no John Bartholemew listed as a casualty at all during WW1. However that doesn't mean he wasn't, but its going to be hard to get him listed as a casualty by the CWGC. I'm heading up to the Lancaster's museum hopefully in June so can do some looking up for you if you wish. Incidently, most men who joined up in this Regt were not from Lancaster but from Sussex. Hope this helps Sniper
Hi Sniper, we were told he was killed at Ypres but all leads have come up with nothing, I got in touch with Kew a while ago and they told me that the records office was bombed during the Blitz and many records were lost, I do fear that perhaps his were amongst those destroted by Adolf. Would be fantastic if we could find evidence they served together.
Hi Hog, Just checked my family history and it was the 2nd Battalion that was in S. Africa and he would of been part of the battle for Spion Kop which is just as famous as the siege of Ladysmith. Do you know how old he was when he joined and where he was from? My Gt grandfather joined at the age of 14 in 1881 and would probably known everyone in the battalion so i have no doubt they knew each other. Back to finding your Gt uncle. Yes the WW1 records were mainly distroyed during 1940 in the blitz, you have a one in five chance of his record still being available. If you have ancestry.com subscription then you would be able to search for his record on there as they have digitalized the whole burnt series held at Kew and have them on their searchable database. However that is not the last chance of finding him in records, there are other ways. For a start you can check the war diaries for a possible mention of his name, but the best chance you have of finding him if his record does not exist now is to check all the Role Call logs for the year of 1916. Also there is a list available from the the Kings Own Regimental Museum listing the men of the Regt who died during WW1. If you contact Peter the curator at the Regt museum he maybe able to tell you what he has available which is in the research room. I am hoping to be up there next month doing some research on my Gt grandfathers brothers who also served with the Regiment where their father also served. Please do contact Peter and see what he has but i know he won't do the research for you. There are researchers that you can employ to do your research for you and most are very good though there are some who take your money and just give you very basic information. If i can help further let me know. I will check while i am up there if they are on the list for serving together during the Boer War. Sniper
Hi Sniper, wow you have a lot of info there. My Great Uncle was born in 1880 which makes him 19 at the outbreak of the Boer War. I will contact the museum and speak to Peter (by e-mail I am sure) and see what he has there. I am on Ancestry.com as my Wife is researching her family and helping me mostly with mine. I think the roll call log may be a good place. Spioen Kop, yes I know the battle and am proud to think he survived that when so many perrished on that hill. Many thanks for all the help and will defo keep you informed as and when I get any info. Regards Mark.
Sniper, I got in touch with the museum and they came back with some info for me, Peter, the curator was extremely helpfull and came up with this. Now we have his service number, rank and date of death we can make some progress.
Hi Hog, Now that we have that then we can virtually say for ceertain that he would of known my gt grandfather and his brother Basil who also served with the 2nd Battalion and was killed in May 1915. I have now checked the CWGC site again and i was spelling his name wrong which is why i couldn't find him before. It looks like he served under a different name which means his records maybe on Ancestry.com as i have not checked that name, maybe an idea for you to check that out. As there was no major battles in that sector for for most the war he would of been killed by normal trench warfare and would probably of been buried in a grave by his mates and the wereabouts of the grave lost which happened quite a lot especially as the unit was moved about a lot. In May it was fighting at Frensenburg where they were involved an a major battle. You lucky to have a photo of him, i wish i had one of my gt grandfather, i don't know what happened to him after 1918. Mike
Ja Mike, John Bartholemew served under the name of 'John Taylor' which is why I could not find him although Peter at the museum says the memorial has his name as Bartholemew, I have to try and get there one day. http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/88800/PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL His name is on pannel 2 so now we have the details of ww1 I need to dig into his Boer War stuff. Interesting though that he survived less than 3 months on the front so I am told, wonder what happened, 'over the top maybe ?' Mark.
There were no major battles in this sector, just the day to day trench warfare such as sniping, artillery now and again but i don't think there was any over the top attacks. He could of been killed while out on patrol or while repairing the barbed wire during the night. Much of the time in the trenches would of been mundane and boring for the troops, like watcing paint dry most of the time. With him serving under a different name leads me to believe that he did the same as my gt grandfather and lied about his age as well. I believe that he had left the army before the war started and when war was announced he wanted to serve with his old regiment so he lied aboout his age to get back in as well as his name. No one at Battalion would of questioned his name, they would of been happy to be up to strength and have someone of his experience back with them. You could also see if there is an army pension listed for him at Kew which would confirm what i think. Have you also checked his medal entitlement? If it just lists the normal WW1 medals then i believe that he had rejoined because it would also list his S. A. medals if it was an unbroken service. In which case his first lot of army service records will still be at Kew. Mike
Hi Mike. Cant find anything on pensions just yet. Medals, I am told he recieved 3 in total.. 1914 Star The War Medal The Victory Medal. Looks like the photo shows a medal bar though , I think it may be one, which would be Boer War campaign medals.
If he just recieved those 3 then he had rejoined at the outbreak of war. His records from his previous time in the battalion will be at Kew and if your lucky may well be online. I can't believe i didn't spot the medal bar before, these would be medals from his previous time because the WW1 medals weren't sent out until after the war ended. Its a real shame the photo is not in color as we could probably work out what they are. It maybe worthwhile contacting Peter again to see wherelse he would of served on his first stint in the battalion. That would give you some idea of what the medals are. Mike
Hi Mike. Ja I will send him another e-mail and ask him,its getting interesting now and quite exciting to uncover all this information.
Not sure they allow cameras in there mate. Do you want me to check out what i can find on him, like muster rolls etc while i'm there?
Mike, that would be great, any info would be very much apreciated, I did e-mail the museum about Boer War records but as yet have had no reply. Mark.
