Frozen to Death by the Fuhrer

It had to be the cold that done them in. Their training wasn't very good but Germans armored military was good. Too bad they didn't have the 21st to back them up. But in all the Germans should have been better equipped even if it meant lugging around a few extra pounds of gear to fight off the bitter cold. But non the less it's never smart to invade a country that is known for it's harsh conditions which the locals are quite used to.

 

For some reason when i read this whole thread all i could think was...Hitler never played Risk as a kid. Eddie Izzard's history lesson always lends funny thoughts to the worse situations...or best situations....depending on how you look at it.

 

That is exactly what I was saying. The Mongol army, along with their Tatar and Bashkir allies, numbered in several hundreds of thousands. Not sure about the captured individuals though. The slaves were usually sold to the Arabs and the Ottoman Turks, as galley workers.

 

Back on topic, the Germans thought they could Blitz the Russians meaning by the end of the autumn they'd be drinking Schnapps in Moscow. The fact that the operation would last more than a few months was never even taken into account. For a short while things went as planned, but you know Hitler. He changed his mind and issued an order to attack Stalingrad, which ended up as a siege thus stopping the momentum of the Blitz.
As for the Russians being expert winter soldiers, The Winter War proved that wasn't the case.

 

The Germans were already stopped at Moscow before the Battle of Stalingrad. It wasn't the Stalingrad changed the course of the war.
From what I heard, the Germans armored divisions did not have enough fuel to reach the oil fields they were planning to get which was their original objective. So they had to stop... and where they stopped happened to be Stalingrad.

 

To the best of my knowledge, their forces were split up, I can't quote the exact divisions, but I know that the ones heading towards the oil fields were redirected on Hitlers orders. I also seem to remember something about retreating and then launching another attack against the city two weeks later, thus giving the defenders ample time to regroup and prepare.

 

Nazis suffered defeat in the Battle of Moscow, which was fought from 2 October 1941 to 7 January 1942. Some 400,000 German soldiers lost their lives.

That battle is considered as one of the most lethal battles in recorded history.

 

Actually historians put the number somewhere between 140,000 and 400,00o for the Germans and 650,000 - 1,200,000 for the soviets for the Battle of Moscow.

The Battle Stalingrad is estimated to have claimed 500,000 to 850,000 Germans and around 1,170,000 Russians. So I'd consider it a more devastating loss for the German war effort.

 

That's exactly what I said.
Moscow in fact almost fell. The Soviets didn't have any troops to send in as reinforcement even though they tried to pull troops from everywhere to defend Moscow...there was simply no troops left... except for some 40 divisions near Chinese border. Those 40 divisions were there to keep eyes on the Japanese occupation force cross the border in Manchuria. We are talking about almost a million Japanese forces there, and they indeed made move twice against USSR before, both failed. However, this time the Japanese didn't have the interest to attack USSR, and Starlin got the guarantee from his intelligence that Japan would not make a move, so he was able to pull those 40 divisions from the east to Moscow for counter-attack.

Yes, it was the first defeat of Germany in Russian campaign. It was also the first winter suffered by the Germans.

I can't believe they didn't learn the lesson for Stalingrad afterward.

 

It's not that the Germans didn't learn their lesson. It's that politicians make for unfit tacticians, this coupled with Hitlers delusions and rising paranoia made him commit a series of tactical blunders that cost him the war.
It's also suspected that Hitler had to use cocaine to cope with a condition that was either Parkinson's or something familiar.

 

They were not called the golden horde for nothing.

 

In jan of 42 the russians surounded the Demyansk Pocket and the germans were able to supply it form the air untill they releived it. After that Hitler thought he could do it on a much larger scale at stalingrad. It was foolhardy at best to believe he could supply 280000 men by air.

 

You should not stress too much on the numbers. Only around 20% of the Russian fighting force was composed of regular soldiers. The remaining came from farmers, women and teenagers. On the other hand, more than three-fourth of the German fighting force was composed of regular soldiers.

 

Thoes numbers are innaccurate. Army group center was stronger than the Russians in men tanks and cannons. It is a common mistake to think the Russians were stronger but that was not the case.

 

All the regular soldiers are also coming from civilians. After some training, and combat experience, they become vet.

Civilians are extremely useful in wars too. You need more people taking care of logistic/supply than actual combat troops.

Not to mention that many of the Russian women were in fact snipers in Battle of Stalingrad. It makes no difference if that's a man or a woman, as long as the person can shoot with a rifle.

 

So,we just send the politicians into battle instead....

 

They never ever felt the heat of a battle-front.If the Nazy-Head had to be seated atleast for a single action from inside a tank of his favorite or being behind a big gun,during his favorite North Afrika campaign or there in the Eastern Front..........or even during his Blitzs over London.......The War,he should have called for a '' HALT ''..I believe.

Kindly imagine the moment,He would have been returning home and on his way Luftwaffe started its Blitz o'er London......