'Catch That Tiger' - Churchill's secret order and the most dangerous WW2 mission

Discussion in 'World War 2' started by BlakePub, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. BlakePub

    BlakePub New Member

    AEGTU.jpg

    Unleashed by Hitler in 1942, the German Tiger tank was by far the most powerful tank ever built at the time. The 60-ton monster could destroy any Allied tank from more than a mile away, and it soon became the most feared tank in the world. Desperate to discover the secret technology used in the Tiger's manufacture, Winston Churchill close a brilliant young army engineer, Major Doug Lidderdale, as his special agent. In a late-night briefing in the subterranean War Rooms under Whitehall he ordered him: 'Go catch me a tiger'.


    Doug did not hesitate and by February 1943 was facing Rommel's desert army. After several unsuccessful and hair-raising efforts to bag a Tiger on the battlefields of Tunisia, Doug and his team put their lives on the line in a terrifying, close-hand shoot-out with the five-man crew of a Tiger, capturing the tank intact. The morale boost to the Allies was such that both Churchill and King George VI flew to Tunis to examine the Tiger first hand.

    But the Germans were not finished with Doug. They did not want the secrets of the Tiger benefitting the Allies' sabotage attempts, and constant attacks by the Luftwaffe and U-boats pursued Doug and his men on every step of the journey back to England. But eventually, by October 1943, the Tiger - number 131 - was delivered to London and gifted to Churchill, who had it placed on London's Horse Guards Parade. Lidderdale went on to use some of the Tiger technology to develop war machines for the D-Day landings and was promoted to Colonel. Tiger 131 is now kept at Bovington Tank Museum and is the only working Tiger in the world.

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  2. aghart

    aghart Former Tank Commander Moderator

    The Tank Museum at Bovington has distanced itself from this book. Doug Lidderdale had no part in the capture of Tiger 131, and was not Churchill's secret agent. The Tank Museum at Bovington have letters written by Doug Litterdale before his death in 1999 which, I quote, " would make uncomfortable reading for anyone who accepts the claims in catch that tiger" The book claims that Litterdale and his group killed the tigers crew and captured the vehicle. In his written testimony Litterdale confirms that he was not present when the tiger tank was captured.

    The Tank Museum will be publishing some of Litterdales letters on it's website so readers can make up their own minds. In the Tank Museums own words, we await any further evidence to support the version of events found in catch that tiger. It seems obvious that this book has no basis in fact, if it was a novel, fine, but it claims to be factual and true, so the authors really are a disgrace!
     
    Diptangshu likes this.
  3. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Well,its interesting.I also heard that US also captured and sent Tiger to Baldwin Locos in Main Land from Libya,help to upgrade/modify M6.

    I've no supporting equipments either.
     
  4. aghart

    aghart Former Tank Commander Moderator

  5. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Correct,your point of view regarding that book is absolutely correct.The mentioned site also explained(FEB'12) that three 6 pounders consecutive hit panicked crews enough to abandon their machine ........(?)But I still have some quires.

    '' ...... The most important strike,which is clearly visible today,saw a 6-pounder round scrap the underside of the tiger's 88mm gun,before hitting the gun mantlet and lodging itself in the turret ring.This jammed the turret and effectively prevented the Tiger from fighting....''

    http://www.tankmuseum.org/asset_arena/textual/12/bovtm_tank_times_feb_2012

    [​IMG]

    [[ Bundesarchiv Bild 101I-022-2935-24, Russland, Treffer an Panzer VI (Tiger I) ]]


    I see here how German soldiers inspect an unharmed penetration outer skin of its armour.

    How far you believe this incident here of 131?
     
  6. vashstampede

    vashstampede Active Member

    I don't believe in going into combat against a tank with capturing it in mind.

    It is most likely the Tiger tank was malfunction and the crew had to abandon it. Usually German tank crews blow up their tanks when they abandon it. They were probably interrupted somehow.

    If a tank is in combat condition with crews inside it and the engine is running, good luck on capturing it lol.

    You know how a lot of facts were twisted and turned into propaganda during the war. This story is probably one of thing.
     
  7. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Yeah man...

    Propaganda , Propaganda and Propaganda. No.1 is b'fore WAR, No.2 is aft WAR(wow !! have own the Match), the 3rd for whats now going on........

    I personally believe that was a collected 131 from Berlin,after surrender.It was send from Berlin and taken some time to decorate by any means.

    A dare Soldier goes by courage,never to.....Collect.What is the glory !?
     
  8. FMAlanbrooke

    FMAlanbrooke New Member

    Yeah, the book is rubbish, the tank was hit by lucky a 6 pounder shot from a Churchill Mk IV on the turret ring. The turret could not move so the crew abandoned it. Crews of Tigers were told to blow up the tank if they had to abandon it but it didn't happen in this case.
     
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  9. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    It is well learned that,every personnel either belongs to Whermacht//Waffen ss or from any Nazy war-mechanism remained famous for carrying-out Orders.During their training ,they were so brutally treated/tortured only to carry-out Orders[any negation means instant death,either by shooting or by simply hanging.....no escape].After completion this enormous mental pressure made them human-machine[during earlier parts of war].And for this reason only they enable to stood fighting by last man till death.This tendency/tenacity was extreme and no match to Allieds'.

    This clearly means......once you entered, you'll be killed either by This[Allied] or by That[Nazis].Standing at this point of view,I just cant believe that 131-crews abandoned their machine unblazed. Any fellow-personnel would shoot another if found slightest negligence in duty.

    Another important thing that Tigers were pron to malfunction. Don't know why,probably desperate and over-engineering caused for such obligations. It was common picture of the front that crew-members were engaged in some repairing works... !! Axis vets,specially from Eastern fronts,recalled of sacrificing 1 tiger a-day.Literally means taking out of parts for alteration. Abandoned one finally blew-off.

    When all these complex factors strike in mind, I just un'ble to believe of some.....'collecting memoirs'....Am I wrong ?

    One more thing let me ask here that Why,.. Why the Allieds' trying to capture a Tiger,since they were superior at their field ?
     
  10. FMAlanbrooke

    FMAlanbrooke New Member

    There was nothing like the Tiger in any army in 1943. It created a form of "tank terror" because it was so formidable. I'm not sure what you mean by the allies being superior, they had a lot more of everything but their tanks were usually of lower quality. In Tunisia the best tank the Allies had was the Sherman, armed with a 75mm gun, but relatively thinly armoured,while British tanks had 57mm guns. The only tank with armour like that of a Tiger was the Churchill, with 102mm for the Churchill and 110mm for the Tiger.
     
  11. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Main gun and armour was really better,was its mobility good?What was the advantage of overlapping wheel?So that I could understand its mobile process,which Churchill had.

    Allies been superior simply,'cause whey 've won and It Should Be.

    Since Allied had machines like Churchill,what made them crazy to capture Tiger??
     
  12. FMAlanbrooke

    FMAlanbrooke New Member

    The overlapping wheels helped distribute the load better and (along with the wide tracks) keep ground pressure low (or at least at a reasonable level) which was important on the Russian front to prevent bogging in snow or mud. However snow and mud would get stuck between the road wheels and freeze solid, so the tank would be unable to move. The mobility of the Tiger wasn't as good as say the Panzer IV or the Panther because it didn't have a high enough power to weight ratio. It was also too heavy to go across bridges. The Churchill was designed as an infantry tank that was able to cross First World War battlefields so it had superb cross-country ability but it was designed to move at the speed of a walking infantryman so it was very slow. The Tiger tank was the only tank in the world of its type (nearest thing would be KV - 1) when the western allies encountered it and it took up to five Shermans to kill one so the Allies were desperate to find out its weaknesses
     
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  13. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Evidence is that,Tigers and its variations were the then best.I was in search of the reasons for its malfunctioning at the front during the later years.My uncle is an Army Major[Retd.]Some interesting and highly notable things he highlighted me.

    Its maneuverability was high but mobility was poor because it wasn't reliable to operate at 3000 rpm[output max] due to poor transmission. Synchromesh 8 speed forward and 4 reverse had a major problem at its 3rd nos shifting by almost every time after crossing 560-600 km.58 tons of weight was too much for the then German available transmission system[Maybach HL 210 Petrol/Gasoline 45]-for first 250 tigers.Next HK P 230 introduced with 2 filters and little bit improved.

    Overlapping wheels jammed often in snow-mud,for which Russians took chances to get them by early mornings.

    Long road march also a problem.They required maintenance on every 1000 km,which wasn't possible every time.Rail roads were disrupted.Mandatory it was to carry 2 sets of different tracks,hence alteration cause problem.

    Inferior materials during the later years,low quality production line[40% non-party member],sleeve bearings[instead of ball bearings],sabotages,improperly tested engine-parts fitted hastily against Front-Demand,more over intense and increasing task of maintenance which required essentially,just became impossible during final years.

    For tiger interested one must visit :

    PzKpfw VI TIGER I
    www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm
     

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