Russian Naval Force ~ War 2

Discussion in 'World War 2' started by Diptangshu, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Why the Soviet Russia didn't pocessed any strong naval force, comparing other Allied countries? I think the War would have been at 'halt', much earlier, if they did so. Other than the Arctic region, their naval contributions remained very minimum
     
  2. Interrogator#6

    Interrogator#6 Active Member

    I think your premise is flawed. Russia did possess some significant naval forces, including a huge submarine force. But one hears so little of naval engagements, other than the use of some sailors and marines as land infantry, because the Soviet Navy lacked several critical factors. Navies are technical services, sometimes highly technical. Officers and crews need practice. They need experience in their tools and the self-confidence to properly use them. For some reason they seemed to lack the drive to win. Perhaps it was Stalin's pre-war purges, or the fear of loss of ships to aircraft (see: Renown & Prince of Wales), or some other reason. Please recall the almost universal doctrine of "A fleet in being is better than a sunk fleet" which caused many conservative naval commanders to avoid battle.

    Please consider the situation of the siege of Leningrad. One factor which foiled the Germans time and again was the availability of Soviet naval guns.

    It was lack of experience, self-confidence, doctrine, and a 'winning mystic' which hampered the Soviets. Compare this to the 'winning mystic' of the British navy in the age of fighting sail, where several times the Jar-Tars won when odds were against them simply because they 'knew they would win.'
     
  3. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Obviously the Soviets had a good numbers like 160-65 of submarines,highest in the year of '39 - '40, where the Kriegsmarine had started its Plan Z only in '39. The plan pocessed some special features for their future undermarine activities along with the production target of 250 unter marine units. Under this circumstance, any body could be an optimist for a better achievement of Red Navy !

    Again, if we go through the comparetive study for their engagement reasults, we are getting a substantially downfall graph ::
    The Red Navy's submarines had destroyed 170 - 80 enemy ships against a sacrifice of about 90 - 100 units; US Navy had that a reasult of 1270 - 80 for a loss of 50 - 60; Brits too pocessing an ascending graph like 600 - 10 kill against some 70 loss; meanwhile the Kriegsmarine had also a higher killing rate against its sacrifice during their undermarine activities.

    Thats where I aint get a center oriented clue for which Stalin neglected one of his ready to deploy, powerful spearhead, which could have 'halt' the War prior to '45. Standing at this view point..It seems to me that the Red Navy hardly had any effective Naval role that time, which could have been helpful but not yet withstand as per expectations.. Thanks.
     
  4. FMAlanbrooke

    FMAlanbrooke New Member

    You should watch "Soviet Storm" espisode 13 - The Russian Navy. Soviet Storm is a fantastic series!! I haven't finished watching this episode, but they say that the Russians decided that if a submarine could sink a battleship, you should build lots of submarines, not battleships - so at the start of the war they had the number of submarines Germany should have had - 250!! It seems they asked themselves the question faced by many wargamers - "should I build a surface fleet or naval air power plus escorts and submarines?" and they went with the latter, cheaper, and simpler option.
     
  5. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Very interesting and informative, too. Thanks..
    Anyway, other than the submarines, Red navy was not only small enough but it was a mixed fleet of old and modernized vessels, too. Among its four fleets (only) the Baltic one made strongest, reasonably, because their enemy targets were almost limited to Northern sea and at Baltic regions. This Baltic fleet however blockaded at Leningrad harbor till '44.
    Another thing to mention (if I'm not wrong) about this Soviet navy that it didn't pocessed any carrier but they had the power of control over the land based air power. By using their lend leased A 20 Havoc, they got some favorables in the Baltic region.
    To me it was very interesting that Red navy men oftenly acted as an infantry, what we found at Sebastopol, Leningrad etc. They even fought at the front, when their big vessels been used as an artillery (Aurora).
    Upto this point, I found Soviet undermarines and torpedo boats remained offensive well off Finland, when their big brothers been used as a high caliber floating batteries. Big guns of Aurora too, been dismantled to defend Leningrad outskirts ยก~.
     
  6. FMAlanbrooke

    FMAlanbrooke New Member

    Well the Russians are primarily a land power, not a sea power. Makes one wonder if the Germans might had tried the same, thing though. If you can have the Herman Goering Paratroop Panzer Division, then why not the Kriegsmarine Submarine Panzer Division! I suppose if Raeder had been Hitler's mate like Goering they might have done something like that but the status of the navy meant that the surplus navy staff were simply drafted into the army instead (not like the crazy Luftwaffe divisions)
     
  7. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Another important feature that been wrapped up with this Baltic Fleet was its air wing. If we not recall them here, it will be just neglecting Soviet Naval History of War 2.
    We 've seen Luftwaffe's raid over Tallinn, Peninsular Hanko etc in such a way that every meter of land turned into bomb crater..my good ness !
    Air wing of Baltic Fleet had been suffocating with its limited resources but there was no scarcity of courage. Since the early days of fighting this wing provided a good coverage along with notable offence, ie., raid on Dunzig, Memel and other enemy ports including Finland by late June. They even dare enough that took a masterplan to raid Berlin, some 900 miles by shortest course.
    Goebbles meanwhile propagated that Soviet air power have been destroyed !
    Please recall August, by 9-10th, I unable to recall right now the exact date and time(probably by mid or late night), 15 DB-3 loaded bombers reached over Berlin sky at some 7000 m alt., to out ranged flaks. No escorts for this mission been provided by Stalin.
    Moscow connected Berlin .... Long before Red Army ..
    Meanwhile the ground observation posts eagerly asking for the course and identification. Berliners steadily ignored alarming sirens and didnt took raid-shelters. The Baltic Fleet air arm acess released their all ordnances towards Berlin city lights.
    German pressmen stormly released bulletins stating that, Brits air raid strongly defended with six gunned down and casualties were negligible.....
    All the 15 DB-3s reversed their course, unharmed from flaks.
    After War 2, the Germans admited the air arm's raiding abilities, that sometimes upto 17 times a day, with a group of 25 planes, each time ... Obviously not a surprised mission.
     

Share This Page