Agent Orange

Are you moonlighting as a doc there, @preacherbob50 ??!! Seriously! My dearest friend on the planet (or any planet! ) is a doctor and told me this same thing in nearly the same words when I asked about it yesterday!

Scary, this whole AO thing... it's been so destructive for such a long time.

 

It's like a lot of things Kate. Truthfully, when a claim with Agent Orange stamped on it makes it's way to whatever desk they look at it as though it is a prank of some sort. The government in general does not like to hand out any claims connected to AO. But, with pressure from the American Legion, VFW, Vietnam Vets assn, NCO assn. not to mention every G.I. still living from the right era, they have no choice but to pay the claim. That does not say how long they can prolong the paper processing. After 4 years there is no longer any retro-payment so they can take as long as they want. Mine topped off at around 90K and there is no more to be had. It's still a nice bank account though. Non-interest bearing as it is.

 

I think I know why the federal government is reluctant to admit any culpability or responcibility in connection to Dixoin (AO). My ephiphany struck me back in the 1980s that to accept responibility for the spreading of a toxic chemical substance is tantamount to an admission of LEGAL GUILT regarding the US being involved with CHEMICAL WARFARE.

And since the US Press has railed against Chemical Warfare, and since someone at sometime promised that the US would never be the first to use chemical warfare in any situation, an admission to using a toxic chemical just admits to a lie.

 

As I pondered, weak and weary.....Eureka....you might be onto something there 6!!! It definitely would explain a lot. But, proving that point would be extremely hard because of the domino effect.

Think about it. Part of the casualties of an American attack were not only civilians but ag products. Rice paddies, chickens, water buffalo ect. Take the water buffalo as an example. Every time a water buffalo was a part of collateral damage, the U.S. had to pay for not only a new water buffalo, but for 6 generations that the old one might have helped produce. Often, after a C.A. the Vietnamese farmers would kill the old ones off on their own so we could buy him a new one. I digress. The same for anything we might have destroyed in our attempt to drive out the VC.

If the U.S. acknowledged the effects of Agent Orange as that of a chem weapon then the government would have to start paying for those S. Vietnamese and N. Vietnamese who were in those sprayed down areas and showing symptoms stemming from AO.

Still, wishing no harm to my country, whatever is right is right. I'm a little stubborn. I signed on to be a warrior, not a test rabbit.

By the Bye 6......I would be careful if I were you. Being able to come up with answers such as your epiphany says you might have a partially corrupt mind likened to a polititian. You might get elected into office some day. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

 

Okay so let's say, for the sake of argument, that this is true "on paper." Chemical Warfare... disgusting, horrible, shocking... but unless you have a TARDIS (uh, do ya, @Interrogator#6 , huh huh?!) you can't go back and change the pathetic decision to use AO.

So that said, if you were "Mister President" you really think you'd get up on your podium and admit to using those terms? Something being right or wrong in theory "on paper" really doesn't mean much when it comes to real life. Where would it get you... or the nation you're commanding, to make such an admission? Covering one's tushie or collective tushies (sorry... but it's better than the military lingo word in CYA!) has been around since the dawn of time (literally... "the woman told me to eat it, God!")

Hmmm... I'm full of questions (or something hehe) today... so while I'm on a roll, whatever happened to Interrogators 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5? Inquiring minds, ya know.

 

You are indeed on a roll Kate!! I guess it is as good of an explaination of governmental "withdrawal," especially when it comes to anything that they are trying to keep covered.

I am sure there was an "or else," when Eve made Adam eat of the forbidden fruit. (unwritten Biblical Gossip)

I used to work in Winston/Salem as a councelor at the rescue mission and next door was a Hanes factory. I am pretty sure interrogators 1 thru 5 are working as inspectors at the plant in the ladies drawers division. I could be wrong.

 

By golly, I *do* believe you're onto something here! I *do* remember finding that little "Inspected by 5" tag in packages of unmentionables (hey, why'd you mention it?!). Now we'll have to wait for @Interrogator#6 to set the record straight. He may be the Drawer Czar undercover. Sorry if I blew your cover there, Interrogator!

But in all seriousness, I'm sure the administration knew that something went horribly wrong over the years, but what nation on the *planet* would announce "Yo dudes, we used chemical warfare in Vietnam... ooops, call us embarrassed and slap our widdle patties." That just doesn't happen... it would weaken ANY country to make that error in judgment.

Just my own opinion because I do not believe strong nations air their dirty laundry for enemies to use against them at some point... feel free to present the other side, anyone.

 

My opinion is that it shows the greatest strength to admit your mistakes and ask for forgiveness. Most people think that is a sign of weakness though, but to me, having the humility to do that shows that you are strong enough to willingly take the flack that comes and your confidence is not based entirely on other people's opinion of you.

 

I love the sentiment DL but the reality of it is that our government (as it is) cannot even tell the truth to Americans so why spoil it and tell the world? And, if we (we, as in, we are supposed to be the government) did admit to anything it would indeed be used financially, militarily, and any other way there is, against us.

I imagine that everyone that has been beheaded by ISIS asked for a break in some way or fashion. Other folks just do not know how to forgive, much less turn the cheek.

No, I guess we have to do the Clinton. Deny, Deny, Deny until someone shows up with the evidence on some proverbial dress.

 

I'm sure many Iraqi Veterans were affected by some sort of pollution or chemical while over there that will inevitably affect them for the rest of their lives as well. War is ugly in every form.

 

Funny you should mention Iraqi war veterans. I recall listening to a radio programme a couple of years ago regarding not only AO syndrom but also "Gulf War syndrom, another mysterious chemical-related condition. At that time no one opening professed to know the cause-- be it an injection given to nearly everyone BEFORE hostilities (allegedly to lessen effects of expected chemical attacks (that never came)), or the effects of depleted Uranium tank ammo, or some local vermin, fly or mite. And not everyone had consistant symptology. Just a mystery illness that effected some veterans, not all veterans.

 

On a personal level, I agree. It's what I was taught, and it's what I taught my daughter... admit error, ask for forgiveness. In the political world, absolutely... those guys mess up and usually their only hope of an intact career is admitting mistakes and asking their fellow countrymen and women for forgiveness.

But "personal level" is so very much a different animal than how a country needs to handle certain situations. No country does that... it may not be right, but perception and looking ahead to what those kinds of declarations could cause in the future are vital.

Considering the media feeding frenzy when there's just *perception* of wrongdoing, I can't even imagine what would happen if a world leader... *any* of them, would make this kind of statement. Damage control is another issue, but outright admission of something like chemical warfare that reaches over the decades and could result in war crime trials... tribunals? Not gonna happen.

 

BBBBBut.......Chem weapons were found in Iraq and it was reported some three weeks ago that the guys digging and loading up the stuff in the defunct chem factory outside of Bagdad came down with some major symptoms. From what came from our glorious and rarely wrong media, it was some sort of mustard gas in containers that suffered time in a severe manner. I of course will not put my yet untainted moniker on it, but that is what was said. The mess fell on Rove's desk and then turned into another one of those "flash in the pan," articles and disappeared. And as a re-cap, whatever was left in the factory and underground was found by some ISIS troops. The statement further explained that the chem containers were so corroded that they were useless and would not harm anyone (and here's the caveat) if the people handling said chems wore protective clothing.

The Ebola thing in the news (which is no longer news either I guess) was the bigger story so the chem thing was buried. I am not normally a conspiracy following kind of guy. But, since the chem situation in Iraq was hidden in some locked drawer in Rove's office for over 6 years (pre-first election of OBama and the senate majority) it is hard not to suspect some fowl play by our immaculate politicians.

Were some sort of chem weapons used in Iraq against our troops? dunno

 

Well said!! Here, Here! Just trying the British thing to see if it makes me look smarter. Nope? Back to being just Bobby.

Actually, all kidding aside, I am very sure some of the Germans who were involved in the Neuremburg trials asked for forgiveness on numerous occasions. For any leader of a nation to admit anything that is against the world community as a whole would have some pretty bad effects.

We won't have that problem though. Our leader doesn't know anything until he reads it in the morning news. He just said this morning that he had no knowledge of this "Gruber" thing until a couple of days ago when he again, heard the news. Are O'Bama, Reed, and Pilosi related? They all say they do not know any guy named Gruber, but in past news they all talk about him. It's a Gomer Pyle thing. Instead of Thankee, Thankee, Thankee, it's Stupid, stupid, stupid. Or Schultz....I see nothing!!

 

That's why I don't trust anyone in the government and I don't want people I know and care about getting into that mess. If you can't be honest and admit what really happened, you are ruined as a person, which is far worse than being in prison.

 

I have a distant cousin who was exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam. He was awarded the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star and was given a medical discharge. From what I have heard, he never really experienced any health problems until the last ten years or so, when he developed throat cancer and had to have his voice box removed. If I heard correctly, when this surgery took place, the government began sending him a benefit check of some kind. I never heard all the details, but suffice it to say that Agent Orange had a dramatic, if delayed, impact on my cousin.

 

Canadian veterans:



http://canadianveteransadvocacy.com/Board2/index.php?topic=814.0

 

Yes. The truck driver for the company I last worked for was deemed to have side-effects from agent orange. He had really weird mood swings. One time he would come in happy and friendly, then he would come back later in the day and bite people's heads off. He didn't have any physical problems, that I could see, although sometimes he seemed off-balanced.

 

They realized how great the profits for the manufacturer would be. Eisenhower (the only decent Republican president, with the possible but debatable exception of Lincoln) warned of the dangers of the military-industrial complex (I believe it was in his farewell address)

 

Yes, the famous warning speech was Ike's farewell address, given at the point of his exit from the POTUS. The speech was written by his speech-writer, Marcolm Moos, who later went on to become president of the University of Minnesota. I never met the man but I met Malcom Moos, junior. Also the writer and radio personality Garrison Keillor was "involved" with dauughter Margerite Moos.

Malcom Moos, senior, wrote a book on the History of the US Republican Party, published circa 1950.