Contrary to what the article says, I think we are a lot closer to finding out what happened and how a sophisitcated, as the article says, warship was sunk by a "German merchant ship". Kormoran was not a merchant ship - she just looked like one! It's really just a regurgitation of some of the conspiracy theories but, that said, the enquiry needs to stay open to all possibilities as a combination of ideas might provide the final answer. BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Australian wreck mystery probed
Naval communications expert seeks to dispel HMAS Sydney myths - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Hello everyone....I have been a trifle busy and just found time to log in. Must be ESP, I was reading this morning about the loss of the "Sydney" in Roskills The War at Sea 1939-1945 Volume 1. I will type out extracts which, to me explain perfectly what happened. "On November 19th 1941 Kormoran met HMS Sydney. We know the ships met at about 1600 and that the Cruiser closed and challenged the raider who identified herself as a Dutch ship and made a wireless report purporting to come from her. The Sydney with all her guns trained on the raider and apparantly ready for instant action, then approached ,on a parrallel course within 2,000 yards hile endeavouring to establish the truth of falsity of her claimed identity. At 1725 she told the raider to hoist her secret call sign ... as she then knew the game was up she dropped her disguise and opened fire with all weapons."...................and so on. Then Roskill goes on.... "As early as January 1940 one of our own Q-ships whose gun and torpedo armaments were about the same as the Kormorans was intercepted off Sierra Leone by the "Neptune", a sister ship of the "Sydney" which was unaware of her identity. The cruiser approached and remained for some time steaming at slow speed, within a few hundred yards of the Q-ship, whose Captain later reported to the Admiralty that, had he been German, he "could have disabled the Neptune with two torpedoes and swept her upper deck". But such a complete secrecy enveloped the work of the Q-ships that the report was never circulated to the naval Staff and the fate from which the Neptune escaped actually overtook the Sydney more than eighteen months later. There were other incidents which showed these Raiders could hit back hard and the Admiralty had issued several warnings to that effect. There were difficulties in tracking every merchant ship at sea of course but to make a a close approach to a suspicious ship, on a favourable bearing for gun and torpedoe fire is to court disaster." We should remember that a few days after, on the 22nd of November the Devonshire found the raider Atlantis. Devonshires Captain took no chances and manouvered at long range while he asked the C in C South Atlantic to confirm or deny the ships identity. The instance Admiral Willis responded that she could not be the ship she claimed to be Devonshire opend fire and the Atlantis soon blew up and sank. There were 315 survivors from the Kormoran and why we cannot take their evidence as mostly truth and accept that Sydney did in fact allow herself to get in close proximity I fail to understand. :frusty: The Raider had all the advantage, her guns were manned, ready trained exactly and they knew they were going to open fire the instant the order was given. The Raiders guns were drawn, pointed and cocked. The Sydney on the other hand would have been ready true, but not neccessarily ready to open fire instantly .... their guns were still Holstered. Fatal.
Barnsey, it's why it took so long for the Sydney to be found. All these people who thought a Japanese submarine was involved or she wasn't sunk at all or there were no survivors because they were machine-gunned or whatever just served to muddy the waters. An inquiry a few years ago, before HMAS Sydney Search really got serious attention, was abandoned briefly in frustration because everyone wanted to put their two cents and boradcast their bizarre theories. The underwater shots and film taken by David Meares and the search team show impressive and bloody accurate hits on the turrets in particular. After the Kormoran's heavy gun crews hit the bridge, and while the AA crews swept the decks, they hit the turrets. Sydney did actually return fire quite quickly considering being surprised but this first broadside landed just beyond the Kormoran - things might have been different if they had hit. I think X turret was the last one firing and there is some evidence to suggest this crew was on local control and, with hatches open, aiming manually. To me, what you say above, hits the nail on the head and is supported by preliminary examination of the wreck and the few records (admittedly German) available - Kormoran was very highly trained and packed quite a punch. Despite this, they still needed the element of surprise to get the jump on Sydney.
I guess Sydney's crew were in the position of a Policeman who approaches a suspect who he cannot see properly and may or may not be armed. He could open fire as a pre-emptive action, but if he was wrong and the suspect was unarmed, he is going to get into a whole lot of trouble. Sydney was playing by the rules; Kormoran was strictly speaking a pirate and acting illegally - though no more so than the British Q-ships. And quite rightly from their point of view, Kormoran's first shots were aimed at the Sydney's bridge and fire control, and scored direct hits; after that it was too late and with the chaos and the fire, Sydney's crew did very well to continue firing as long as they did. Its slightly more mysterious as to why she eventually sank, some time afer the action, but eventually the fire could have spread to a magazine, or maybe she capsized due to the weight of water used to control the fire. And in shark-infested waters and with the boats and rafts destroyed, no-one survived. (Only one man survived when Neptune ran into a minefield, so the casualty rate is only too understandable).
AR, they reckon the weakened bow (from torpedo hit) finally gave way as she limped away and she sank quite quickly. Am going to look into Neptune as don't know anything about her.
Fascinating ! HMAS Sydney (II) Discovered - Latest Search Reports Heres the one Neptune survivor God Bless him ! Norman Walton RIP Norman Walton archive15.html Scroll down to Norman !
AR, Lets not forget that Sydney was effective, despite her own devastation in that she caused the ultimate sinking of the Kormoran. However, no policeman should let themselves get into a position where the opposition can get the jump on them ...Sydney, policeman or not did. The potency of the armament of the Raiders was well known ... why did she risk it? Thank goodness they found the wreck and took all the excellent photos ... a brilliant expedition and well worth the effort and cost.
