As a child, I was a playmate of the future King George III. I spent my early adulthood as an ordained Priest, but died an aetheist. I became a Whig Radical and sat as an MP, even though I campaigned for reform of the House of Commons. Most famously, I was the only British citizen to be imprisoned for support of the actions taken by the American Colonists. Who am I? ???
Spot on, Mike. How did you know? He's certainly an interesting character, but not a well-known one. Best wishes, Mark
Mark: I wasn't sure about the George III playmate, ordained minister, atheist, Whig Radical, MP, House of Commons clues. But I remembered reading somewhere that John Horne Tooke was imprisoned for, IIRC, trying to raise money for relatives of the Americans who had, according to JH Tooke, been "murdered" at Concord & Lexington. Am I remembering that right? Mike Peters
Mike, Your recollection is very close. He was technically imprisoned for libel. Which, of course, he was guilty of! :-X Best wishes, Mark
Perhaps this one is a bit harder! I was born in Dublin, coming from an Anglo-Irish family. I became a notable political thinker, orator, and a MP. I supported the American Revolution and strongly opposed the French Revolution. Nowadays, I am considered a 'founding father' of the British Conservative tradition. Who am I?
Mike, Yes, you're spot again. ;D I promise that I'm not being patronising, but I'm really impressed with your knowledge in this area. Though people might be more familiar with Edmund Burke, I thought that I didn't give too much away with the clues. I'm also surprised that there is such an awareness of Georgian British movers and shakers on your side. If only more of us, in our country, had so much awareness of our own history. :'( Best wishes, Mark
Mark: Thank you for your kind words. 2 other gentlemen from across the pond whom I find interesting are Pitt the Younger & Charles James Fox. Your thoughts on these guys? Respectfully, Mike Peters
Mike, A pleasure! I meant what I wrote. Two very interesting characters that were, I'm sure you're aware of, cousins. Along with Pitt the Elder; they were, for 40 years, the influential family of their time. They had quite a say on the Royal in-fighting at the time, but that's another story. Anything I would write, or say, about Pitt the Younger would be extremely biased, as he was my political hero from an early age. A politician who put his country before party or politics, and died early from the strain of leading a country for so long at a time of war, etc. Like Churchill, he started off from a liberal background, only to lead the country at time of war as a conservative. A case of history repeating itself. ??? To be fair, Charles Fox is a far more interesting character. Probably the political intellect of his time (Burke and Wilkes included), he was an astute operator but had too many vices. As such, he lacked the vision of his cousin and was never as effective as he could have been. Too much ime spent at the gamblng tables of White's, and chasing ladies of ill-repute was not what was required at time of war. More importantly, what do you find so appealing about these two characters? Best wishes, Mark
Mark: I'll start with your hero Pitt the Younger, who you say "died early from the strain of leading a country so long at a time of war, etc." Someone else wrote that "he worked, worried & drank himself to death." The genesis of his drinking was innocent enough. At the age of 14, Pitt suffered from an attack of gout, and Dr. Anthony Addington, father of the Prime Minister Henry Addington, the PM sandwiched between the Younger's 2 "terms," prescribed a bottle of wine daily to cure the affliction. Pitt the Younger continued the habit through his short life, dying of liver failure at the age of 47. PM Henry Addington reportedly said that the Younger Pitt "liked a glass of port very well, and a bottle better." What he failed to mention was the elder Addington was the impetus for the younger Pitt's alcoholism. What initially drew me to Pitt the Younger,was the fact that, early in his political carrer, he opposed continuing the war vs. the 13 Colonies & suggested that the government make peace with the rebels. I was also intrigued by his attempts, though unsuccessful, at Catholic Emancipation, abolishment of the slave trade & parlimentary reform. He also worked hard, & successfully, to reduce England's debt following the American Revolution. Am very fond of a quote that's attributed to him -- "Pie is the fuel of Britain." Forgive me if I am not remembering all this correctly. Able to confirm some memories by surfing the net. And high school was over 30 years ago. Thank you Mr. Purcell! I look forward to hearing from you. Respectfully, Mike Peters
Mark: Now for Charles James Fox. Politically, I was drawn to him because of his support of the American Colonies, his anti-slavery views & his overall oppositon to King George III. He was quite a character with a lavish lifestyle & the acknowledged leader of The "Macaronis," a group that one might call the original "Meterosexuals." Their fashion was imported from France -- powdered wigs, frilly lace, cosmetics, brocade fabrics & red heels. IIRC, because of his large living he was, at one time, over 100,000 pounds in debt. New England Patriot football fans might be interested to learn that Foxborough, Massachusetts was named for the British politician. Again please forgive any inaccuracies & I appreciate the discourse. Respectfully, Mike Peters
Mike, I think we could discuss some of these individuals in more depth later, or maybe you'd like to continue the discussion by private mail? I'm worried that some of the DG members might find some of the discussion somewhat Anglo-centric. It was your war after all! Best wishes, Mark
Mark: I don't know how much more I could add to the discussion, but I sure am willing to read & learn. I am amazed that I have been able to recall a lot of Chet Purcell's lectures of 10th grade American history. It was often said that a "C" in his class was equivalent to an "A" in others. Mr. Purcell made you dig & read & dig & read some more. There were discussions in class & one was penalized for not participating. He taught us that there was more to the American Civil War than Robert E. Lee, US Grant & the Eastern Theater. He also said there were 2 sides to the American Revolution & we should familiarize ourselves with both. Quite a teacher! Respectfully, Mike Peters
