B-24 crash site found - India

Antipodean Andy · Dec 11, 2007

Hey, Kyt, your anthropological background and connections with India would be useful here! Dream job?

garyz · Dec 11, 2007

Adrian Roberts said: ↑

C-109? Thats a new one for me - anyone got any pictures/ info?

As the website describes it as a Consolidated C109, was it a transport version of the B24?
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Hi Adrian...The C-109 was the tanker version of the B-24. It's sole purpose was to transport aviation fuel over the Hump from India to American B-29 bases in China. I have been told that it's nickname was the C-10 "Boom!" because of its tendency to blow up with horrendous effect, with all that extra fuel on board. The transport version of the B-24 was the C-87"Liberator Express."

Kyt · Dec 11, 2007

Garyz, do you have any details about how the fuel was carried. Was it one large internal tank or was it similar to the C-87 and carried large barrels.

I've read that, as you say, it had a horrendous accident rate, and it's operational cargo limit was reduced by almost half from it's actual capacity.

garyz · Dec 13, 2007

Kyt said: ↑

Garyz, do you have any details about how the fuel was carried. Was it one large internal tank or was it similar to the C-87 and carried large barrels.

I've read that, as you say, it had a horrendous accident rate, and it's operational cargo limit was reduced by almost half from it's actual capacity.
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Hi Kyt,

There's a good description of the C-109 in the book "B-24 Liberator in Action" (Squadron/Signal Publications, 1987, Carollton, TX), by Larry Davis. As far as how the fuel was carried, the book says that "A fuel tank was fitted in the nose, two in the bomb bay, and three in the rear fuselage, increasing fuel capacity to 2,400 gallons."

spidge · Dec 13, 2007

garyz said: ↑

Hi Kyt,

There's a good description of the C-109 in the book "B-24 Liberator in Action" (Squadron/Signal Publications, 1987, Carollton, TX), by Larry Davis. As far as how the fuel was carried, the book says that "A fuel tank was fitted in the nose, two in the bomb bay, and three in the rear fuselage, increasing fuel capacity to 2,400 gallons."
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Which is about 20,000lbs.

Is this their normal carrying capacity?

Kyt · Dec 13, 2007

It would have been US gallons, Spidge, rather than imperial.

US gallon = approx 3.79 litres
Imperial = approc 4.55 litres

So technical it would just over 16,500 ilbs though aviation fuel is litre by volume aswell.

But whatever the numbers, it was really pushing it to the limit, even with a reduced crew and the guns and turrets taken out. This is probably why there were so many accidents, and why the limit was reduced to by almost a half.

There was also the problem of the centre of gravity changing, making the handling more difficult.

Kyt · Dec 19, 2007

The Associated Press: Relatives Want WWII Victims' Remains

Antipodean Andy · Sep 14, 2008

Progress!

Denied:1up! Software ()

PRESCOTT - A black-and-white photo of young Sheldon Chambers holds a place of honor on the wall in Verna Martin's tidy room at the Arizona Pioneers' Home in Prescott.

For 65 years, Martin lived her life without knowing the fate of "Shell," the little brother who went off to war fresh out of high school.

She always wondered, though. Where was he? What happened to keep him from returning home to his large Pennsylvania family?

Finally, Martin has some answers, and they came from a source much closer than she ever would have guessed.

Clayton Kuhles and Martin lived just miles from one another for decades, strangers, never knowing their lives would one day converge in a poignant intersection of history, family loss, and adventure.

But that is what happened when Kuhles, a Prescott entrepreneur and mountaineer, tracked down the northeast-India crash site of the warplane on which Martin's brother lost his life in World War II.

The B-24 aircraft, dubbed the "Hot as Hell," lay in a crumbled mass in the jungle of the Himalayan Mountains for decades, unaccounted for until Kuhles trekked for days to reach the site.

After previously finding more than a dozen other missing U.S. warplanes, Kuhles had been in contact with surviving family members from all over the country. Indeed, his website, MIA Recoveries : Locate and Document Missing WWII Aircraft and Pilots, lists letters of thanks from as far away as Maryland, Pennsylvania and North Carolina.

But never had he touched a family so close to home.

After finding the Hot as Hell, Kuhles was surprised to learn that survivors of the plane's co-pilot, Sheldon Chambers, lived in Prescott, Kuhles' home since 1984.

"It is so interesting that she lives right here in Prescott," Kuhles said this past week of the serendipity of finding Chambers' sister, 90-year-old Verna (Swope) Martin, living in Prescott. "What are the odds of that?"

For Martin, the coincidence of proximity makes Kuhles' discovery even more remarkable - exceeded only by the fact that someone found her brother's remains at last, after so many years.

"For years, we didn't know where he was," Martin said of the brother she lost in 1944.

At the time, the Altoona, Penn.-area Chambers family heard only that Sheldon - the third son in a family of nine children - was missing in action.

They knew nothing of the missions he was flying between China and India - a route that Kuhles said was a common but treacherous path of transportation over "the Hump" of the Himalayas.

That uncertainty was especially hard on their mother, Martin said.

"Every time she was in a train station, she would look all around for Sheldon," Martin remembered of her mother, Sarah Chambers. "She always said, 'I'm going to find him; he probably has amnesia.'"

Until the day she died in 1976, Sarah Chambers believed her son was still out there somewhere, living his life.

Martin, who was in her mid-20s the day the family got the news that Sheldon was missing, was more pragmatic.

"I came to the conclusion that he was dead, but I didn't know where," she said this week.

Martin has fond memories of "Shell," who, she said, was a "shy, quiet boy who worked hard."

Martin vividly recalls the day the family got the first news that Sheldon was missing. Living next door to her sister, Martin said she saw a Western Union official approaching her sister's house, where her mother was visiting.

"I started to go over to see what was going on, and I heard my mother screaming," Martin said.

Today, only Martin, who moved to Prescott in 1949, and two of her brothers remain of the nine siblings. All of the extended family, including Martin's own six children, are thrilled by the news of the discovery of Sheldon's remains.

"It gives us some closure," Martin said.

The fact that Kuhles lived nearby and could speak to her in person made the news even more incredible for Martin.

And she has nothing but praise for the work Kuhles does, spending his own money and time to track down lost WWII servicemen.

"Clayton does so much good that he needed to be recognized," Martin said. "I think he's a swell guy."

Kuhles said the quest for lost warplanes brought meaning to his lifelong love of adventure.

"Mountaineering is my passion," he said. "But it's an empty passion; nobody benefits."

Kuhles found a way to combine his love of history and adventure with an altruistic mission in the early 2000s, while on a trip through Southeast Asia.

"I did a big trip to Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and ended up in Burma," Kuhles said.

His guide mentioned the location of a crashed American airplane in the area.

"So we did a two-week side trip, and that got us up there," Kuhles said of the first recovery mission, on which he found a quasi-military plane that crashed in early 1945.

After doing some research on the matter, Kuhles found that as many as 600 unaccounted for airplanes still lie in the China/Burma/India area.

Throughout WWII, Kuhles said, warplanes "were crashing like crazy all over the place" in Indochina. The frigid high-altitude conditions contributed more to the dangers than did the enemy.

"The planes would get ice on the wings and engines, and then they would plummet like a rock," Kuhles said.

In his continuing quest to identify as many of the lost planes as possible, Kuhles plans to leave on a six-week trip to the area next week.

Meanwhile, Martin and her family continue to wait for the U.S. government to return Sheldon's remains to the U.S. to allow for a proper burial.

And at almost 91 years old, she hopes that happens soon.

"I want those remains here before I die," she said matter-of-factly. "I want to go (to the burial), if it's at Arlington or Pennsylvania, and I'm just praying now for JPAC (Joint Prisoners of War, Missing in Action Accounting Command) to get it done."
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B-24 crash site found - India

Antipodean Andy New Member

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